Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good
afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for
Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.
Thank you.
Good afternoon, [redacted]. Attached please find the additional information response for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Regards,
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted] If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good morning, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted] If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for [redacted] If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted] If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr.[redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter and support documentation for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, Attached please find the customer rebuttal letter for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you.
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you.
[redacted]
You asked for a response within 5 days or this complaint will be marked as closed. This letter responds as requested.
I received a couple of emails from Bancorp and also sent a few to Bancorp about this issue. I also have done more research about the underlying issue. In response to Mr. [redacted]'s letter to you, I have not accepted the results, I would put it more that I have been in a waiting pattern to see how this totally plays out and do/did not want to be rushed into a quick acceptance of a flawed answer. I understand what they are doing, but that does not mean I necessarily agree with what they are doing.
Mr. [redacted]'s letter to you states that they could not accommodate my first choice of resolutions "because of limitations of his brokerage account we cannot impact due to his separate agreement with National Financial Services." They could have impacted what was done as demonstrated below, because it was solely the Bancorp's decision, not any other entity they wish to try to divert attention to.
I do not believe that this is a true statement. First, when I set up the brokerage accounts, the cover letter from The Bancorp Bank dated 2/13/2008 states: "Thank you for opening your brokerage account. THE BANCORP BANK has an agreement with National Financial Services LLC (NFS) in which NFS may provide trade execution, clearing, and other related services for your account." NFS is part of Fidelity Investments.
On the back side of the letter it states: "THE BANCORP BANK is responsible for: ...The acceptance of orders and other instructions from you regarding your account, and for promptly and accurately transmitting those instructions to NFS. Under normal circumstances, NFS will not accept orders or instructions directly from you".
It goes on. "NFS is responsible, at the direction of THE BANCORP BANK, for:...The receipt and delivery of funds and securities for your account in accordance with THE BANCORP BANK instructions."
It is very clear from the above paragraphs that I have no relationship with NFS, my relationship by agreement is with the Bancorp Bank. It is Bancorp that has the relationship with NFS. My instructions (as described below) to Bancorp were very clear. Transfer my stocks in-kind via ACAT to my new HSA.
This position is further supported by the "Investment Requirement Acceptance Document", between me as the investor and HSA Investment Services, the Bancorp's past choice of entity for the custody and transfer services (from the Brokerage Account Customer Agreement). In the document under point 10, it states: "Funds in this brokerage account may not be...In addition, you may not transfer this HSA brokerage balance 'in-kind' to another brokerage account. If you wish to move funds, you must divest your portfolio and transfer monies directly from the core Health Savings Account...".
Note, I have not yet been able to determine if the relationship between the Bancorp and HSA Investment Services is truly an arm's length transaction, it appears that they are related entities.
This is the only place I can find that says that the brokerage balance can not be transferred in-kind. Note also that the agreement is between HSA Investment Services/the Bancorp and me, with no mention of NFS as Mr. [redacted] states in his letter to you.
What is also very important about the above quote, {that the requirement that does not allow a transfer in-kind} only applies if I want to transfer the brokerage account. It does not state that if the Bancorp chooses to sell my account that I have to do anything. In fact, in the Brokerage Account Customer Agreement it states in two places that Bancorp can terminate the account at any time, or can transfer its interests, but doesn't say that I have to liquidate the assets in that event. I only have to liquidate the brokerage account if it is due to an action that I am initiating.
If Bancorp puts forth the argument that Bancorp's new successor, HealthEquity would have taken everything over and provides investment choices, it needs to note that HealthEquity does not allow stock ownership, disenfranchising all who have their HSA savings in equities. The current loss I have as a paper loss becomes a real loss, and the direction of a future changed investment in a mutual fund is total speculation.
In the terms and conditions of the Bancorp's Account Agreement, 6.08 states that the Bancorp can resign as Custodian any time effective 30 days after it mails its resignation to me. The notice was dated November 1, effective November 30th. Upon receipt of that notice, I was to make arrangements to transfer my HSA to another financial institution which I did, Saturna Capital. I made arrangements, the Bancorp received that notice on November 23 or 24th via a tracked fax. As part of that transfer, I requested an ACAT in-kind transfer of my stocks. Saturna made the request of either NFS or the Bancorp (I am unsure which one). I understand that NFS had made other in-kind transfers of other Bancorp held HSA's directly to Saturna the same day I was speaking to them about taking my account. I understand that Bancorp (not NFS) called Saturna and told them that they COULD NOT do ACAT in-kind transfers. If, as Mr. [redacted] asserts, the limitation of in-kind transfers was due to a limitation by an agreement between NFS and me, NFS would have called Saturna, not the Bancorp calling Saturna.
Saturna relayed the Bancorp's message to me on Nov. 24 or 25th.
When the in-kind transfer was discussed with Mr. [redacted], if there was some FIDC or IRS or governmental regulation that did not allow an in-kind transfer, it would have been cited. It was not. Other HSA providers do allow an ACAT in-kind transfer, so it is not out of the ordinary.
In fact, in the email I received from Mr. [redacted] dated 11/18/15 about the issue of transferring in-kind, he stated that Bancorp's First VP of Deposit Operations contacted the Transfer of Assets team at NFS to see if there was a way to accommodate my request to move the assets in-kind. He states that NFS confirmed that under this program, a direct transfer of assets is not allowed. (Again, "Our First VP" contacts Transfer of Assets Team at NFS? How did he go around HSA Investment Services if it was not an alter ego of the Bancorp?)
I just contacted NFS and asked the same question. They told me that it was allowed, and the only issue is if the receiving custodian (Saturna)could not receive it; they had no problem sending the stocks in-kind. In fact, they said that it was no problem and that Bancorp was just making more work for itself. He also checked and there was no notation on my account precluding an in-kind transfer.
So, if there was some (unbeknownst to me) agreement between me and NFS about not allowing in-kind transfers, then NFS would not have done the transfer for the other Bancorp client to Saturna.
If there was an agreement between Bancorp/HSA Investment Services and NFS, NFS would have no problem modifying the agreement because it has nothing to gain by not agreeing in this sales situation. It would have only been stopped by Bancorp.
If there was an agreement between the Bancorp and me saying things would have to be liquidated, Bancorp could have said, "Let's modify the brokerage agreement to allow in-kind transfers since we are selling out", as they are revenue neutral and it doesn't matter to them. I don't believe that they wanted to say it before because prior to my Revdex.com complaint, they were going to make (what I estimate) $5-6,000,000 on stock sales commissions to what looks like its sister company, HSA Investment Services. After they sent letters out to all stock holders of not charging commission, it became revenue neutral to the Bancorp, so allowing the in-kind transfer would make sense. And the commissions could only be waived if Bancorp was in control of who gets the commissions (HSA Investment Services).
So the outcome of settling the first aspect of the complaint (the lack of allowing an in-kind transfer in a situation that the Bancorp created with its sale of my account), was determined solely by the Bancorp. It was not agreed to by me when setting up the account. I do not agree with Bancorp's actions, but have had to respond with actions as a result of the Bancorp's actions.
Because of the Bancorp's actions, lack of appropriate action, and business decisions that directly affect me, it has put into motion a series of related follow-up actions and responses, of which I warned them about in my emails and in the original complaint. That is why this complaint has not gone the way of the dodo bird and become extinct.
So we come to today, and where does this go, as the issue is not totally settled. Yesterday, not of my wishes, I liquidated all stocks as the Bancorp directed on the last day possible, and have taken the (temporary) loss. The funds will be settled on December 3. The Bancorp must then receive the money from NFS, and then transfer it per my instructions to Saturna. My understanding is that these funds transfers by Bancorp can take a while; I was told that it may be 3 weeks.
Once the funds are received, I will buy back the stocks that I previously held. There will be a charge for commissions, about $15/stock, and we held 15 stocks. In addition, there will be a gain or loss on the stock buy-back. As of the instant of this letter, the two portfolios have dropped $261. Earlier today it was up in positive territory. I am doing everything I can reasonably do to minimize the loss/maximize the gain. There are some stocks with gains, and possibly with use of limit orders on the re-purchases, all will be up.
If the stock buy-back takes 3 weeks just to receive the funds from Bancorp and the stocks have increased in value to offset the commission cost ($275), I will drop the complaint. If the stocks drop in value to where the commission cost is not covered, then I will be looking for the Bancorp to make me whole, as again, this was not the route I wanted to go down, Bancorp's managers and executives made this choice, with notice. They need to be responsible for their actions and for limiting my actions. But I think the managers are now scared of setting a precedent.
This was the choice the Bancorp made, and I think that they need to do what a responsible entity would do to rectify a situation of its sole making.
The Bancorp now needs to decide. If it takes its staff 3 weeks to get me my money, do they want me to immediately buy back the stock when I get that money at the market to freeze the possible exposure, or do they want me to place limit orders for 30 days in a hope to possibly reduce the loss?
Again, if they had allowed me the in-kind transfer, as it was not part of our original agreement for this HSA, we wouldn't be going through this step.
The other reason that this complaint is not being withdrawn is that I have not received all (or any, for that matter) of my money from Bancorp. I want to make sure that no additional fees or charges are added, possibly as retaliation for me filing this Revdex.com complaint
Thank you very much, Lexe, and I will keep you posted.
Good afternoon[redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good morning, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted] If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you.
Good afternoon, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted] If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good
afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for
Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.
Thank you.
Good afternoon, [redacted]. Attached please find the additional information response for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Regards,
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted] If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good morning, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted] If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for [redacted] If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted] If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr.[redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter and support documentation for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, Attached please find the customer rebuttal letter for Mr. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you.
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you.
[redacted]
You asked for a response within 5 days or this complaint will be marked as closed. This letter responds as requested.
I received a couple of emails from Bancorp and also sent a few to Bancorp about this issue. I also have done more research about the underlying issue. In response to Mr. [redacted]'s letter to you, I have not accepted the results, I would put it more that I have been in a waiting pattern to see how this totally plays out and do/did not want to be rushed into a quick acceptance of a flawed answer. I understand what they are doing, but that does not mean I necessarily agree with what they are doing.
Mr. [redacted]'s letter to you states that they could not accommodate my first choice of resolutions "because of limitations of his brokerage account we cannot impact due to his separate agreement with National Financial Services." They could have impacted what was done as demonstrated below, because it was solely the Bancorp's decision, not any other entity they wish to try to divert attention to.
I do not believe that this is a true statement. First, when I set up the brokerage accounts, the cover letter from The Bancorp Bank dated 2/13/2008 states: "Thank you for opening your brokerage account. THE BANCORP BANK has an agreement with National Financial Services LLC (NFS) in which NFS may provide trade execution, clearing, and other related services for your account." NFS is part of Fidelity Investments.
On the back side of the letter it states: "THE BANCORP BANK is responsible for: ...The acceptance of orders and other instructions from you regarding your account, and for promptly and accurately transmitting those instructions to NFS. Under normal circumstances, NFS will not accept orders or instructions directly from you".
It goes on. "NFS is responsible, at the direction of THE BANCORP BANK, for:...The receipt and delivery of funds and securities for your account in accordance with THE BANCORP BANK instructions."
It is very clear from the above paragraphs that I have no relationship with NFS, my relationship by agreement is with the Bancorp Bank. It is Bancorp that has the relationship with NFS. My instructions (as described below) to Bancorp were very clear. Transfer my stocks in-kind via ACAT to my new HSA.
This position is further supported by the "Investment Requirement Acceptance Document", between me as the investor and HSA Investment Services, the Bancorp's past choice of entity for the custody and transfer services (from the Brokerage Account Customer Agreement). In the document under point 10, it states: "Funds in this brokerage account may not be...In addition, you may not transfer this HSA brokerage balance 'in-kind' to another brokerage account. If you wish to move funds, you must divest your portfolio and transfer monies directly from the core Health Savings Account...".
Note, I have not yet been able to determine if the relationship between the Bancorp and HSA Investment Services is truly an arm's length transaction, it appears that they are related entities.
This is the only place I can find that says that the brokerage balance can not be transferred in-kind. Note also that the agreement is between HSA Investment Services/the Bancorp and me, with no mention of NFS as Mr. [redacted] states in his letter to you.
What is also very important about the above quote, {that the requirement that does not allow a transfer in-kind} only applies if I want to transfer the brokerage account. It does not state that if the Bancorp chooses to sell my account that I have to do anything. In fact, in the Brokerage Account Customer Agreement it states in two places that Bancorp can terminate the account at any time, or can transfer its interests, but doesn't say that I have to liquidate the assets in that event. I only have to liquidate the brokerage account if it is due to an action that I am initiating.
If Bancorp puts forth the argument that Bancorp's new successor, HealthEquity would have taken everything over and provides investment choices, it needs to note that HealthEquity does not allow stock ownership, disenfranchising all who have their HSA savings in equities. The current loss I have as a paper loss becomes a real loss, and the direction of a future changed investment in a mutual fund is total speculation.
In the terms and conditions of the Bancorp's Account Agreement, 6.08 states that the Bancorp can resign as Custodian any time effective 30 days after it mails its resignation to me. The notice was dated November 1, effective November 30th. Upon receipt of that notice, I was to make arrangements to transfer my HSA to another financial institution which I did, Saturna Capital. I made arrangements, the Bancorp received that notice on November 23 or 24th via a tracked fax. As part of that transfer, I requested an ACAT in-kind transfer of my stocks. Saturna made the request of either NFS or the Bancorp (I am unsure which one). I understand that NFS had made other in-kind transfers of other Bancorp held HSA's directly to Saturna the same day I was speaking to them about taking my account. I understand that Bancorp (not NFS) called Saturna and told them that they COULD NOT do ACAT in-kind transfers. If, as Mr. [redacted] asserts, the limitation of in-kind transfers was due to a limitation by an agreement between NFS and me, NFS would have called Saturna, not the Bancorp calling Saturna.
Saturna relayed the Bancorp's message to me on Nov. 24 or 25th.
When the in-kind transfer was discussed with Mr. [redacted], if there was some FIDC or IRS or governmental regulation that did not allow an in-kind transfer, it would have been cited. It was not. Other HSA providers do allow an ACAT in-kind transfer, so it is not out of the ordinary.
In fact, in the email I received from Mr. [redacted] dated 11/18/15 about the issue of transferring in-kind, he stated that Bancorp's First VP of Deposit Operations contacted the Transfer of Assets team at NFS to see if there was a way to accommodate my request to move the assets in-kind. He states that NFS confirmed that under this program, a direct transfer of assets is not allowed. (Again, "Our First VP" contacts Transfer of Assets Team at NFS? How did he go around HSA Investment Services if it was not an alter ego of the Bancorp?)
I just contacted NFS and asked the same question. They told me that it was allowed, and the only issue is if the receiving custodian (Saturna)could not receive it; they had no problem sending the stocks in-kind. In fact, they said that it was no problem and that Bancorp was just making more work for itself. He also checked and there was no notation on my account precluding an in-kind transfer.
So, if there was some (unbeknownst to me) agreement between me and NFS about not allowing in-kind transfers, then NFS would not have done the transfer for the other Bancorp client to Saturna.
If there was an agreement between Bancorp/HSA Investment Services and NFS, NFS would have no problem modifying the agreement because it has nothing to gain by not agreeing in this sales situation. It would have only been stopped by Bancorp.
If there was an agreement between the Bancorp and me saying things would have to be liquidated, Bancorp could have said, "Let's modify the brokerage agreement to allow in-kind transfers since we are selling out", as they are revenue neutral and it doesn't matter to them. I don't believe that they wanted to say it before because prior to my Revdex.com complaint, they were going to make (what I estimate) $5-6,000,000 on stock sales commissions to what looks like its sister company, HSA Investment Services. After they sent letters out to all stock holders of not charging commission, it became revenue neutral to the Bancorp, so allowing the in-kind transfer would make sense. And the commissions could only be waived if Bancorp was in control of who gets the commissions (HSA Investment Services).
So the outcome of settling the first aspect of the complaint (the lack of allowing an in-kind transfer in a situation that the Bancorp created with its sale of my account), was determined solely by the Bancorp. It was not agreed to by me when setting up the account. I do not agree with Bancorp's actions, but have had to respond with actions as a result of the Bancorp's actions.
Because of the Bancorp's actions, lack of appropriate action, and business decisions that directly affect me, it has put into motion a series of related follow-up actions and responses, of which I warned them about in my emails and in the original complaint. That is why this complaint has not gone the way of the dodo bird and become extinct.
So we come to today, and where does this go, as the issue is not totally settled. Yesterday, not of my wishes, I liquidated all stocks as the Bancorp directed on the last day possible, and have taken the (temporary) loss. The funds will be settled on December 3. The Bancorp must then receive the money from NFS, and then transfer it per my instructions to Saturna. My understanding is that these funds transfers by Bancorp can take a while; I was told that it may be 3 weeks.
Once the funds are received, I will buy back the stocks that I previously held. There will be a charge for commissions, about $15/stock, and we held 15 stocks. In addition, there will be a gain or loss on the stock buy-back. As of the instant of this letter, the two portfolios have dropped $261. Earlier today it was up in positive territory. I am doing everything I can reasonably do to minimize the loss/maximize the gain. There are some stocks with gains, and possibly with use of limit orders on the re-purchases, all will be up.
If the stock buy-back takes 3 weeks just to receive the funds from Bancorp and the stocks have increased in value to offset the commission cost ($275), I will drop the complaint. If the stocks drop in value to where the commission cost is not covered, then I will be looking for the Bancorp to make me whole, as again, this was not the route I wanted to go down, Bancorp's managers and executives made this choice, with notice. They need to be responsible for their actions and for limiting my actions. But I think the managers are now scared of setting a precedent.
This was the choice the Bancorp made, and I think that they need to do what a responsible entity would do to rectify a situation of its sole making.
The Bancorp now needs to decide. If it takes its staff 3 weeks to get me my money, do they want me to immediately buy back the stock when I get that money at the market to freeze the possible exposure, or do they want me to place limit orders for 30 days in a hope to possibly reduce the loss?
Again, if they had allowed me the in-kind transfer, as it was not part of our original agreement for this HSA, we wouldn't be going through this step.
The other reason that this complaint is not being withdrawn is that I have not received all (or any, for that matter) of my money from Bancorp. I want to make sure that no additional fees or charges are added, possibly as retaliation for me filing this Revdex.com complaint
Thank you very much, Lexe, and I will keep you posted.
Good afternoon[redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good morning, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted] If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you.
Good afternoon, [redacted]. Attached please find the customer response letter for Ms. [redacted]. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]
Good afternoon, [redacted] Attached please find the customer response letter for Mr. [redacted] If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Thank you. [redacted]