Sun Ray Hot Tubs & Patio

Most importantly, the control pack that Mr [redacted] demanded we give him supposedly to replace his was off warrantyHis tub was delivered in September He came here in early October His year warranty had expired The rest really doesn't matterIt becomes emotional because Mr [redacted] was extremely verbally abusive to [redacted] He was shouting and demanding and unwilling to listen to anything [redacted] had to sayIt was quite upsettingIt becomes more frustrating because he DID NOT bring his old control pack with himRegardless of the warranty issue, I don't think it is a good business practice to dispense $parts without some sort of return of the defective onesIf you reference #below, you will see that Mr [redacted] felt quite competent uninstalling and reinstalling his control packUnfortunately, if we were to stand on principle, when he reinstalled his control pack himself in June 2014, he voided his warranty Some history 1) Shortly after Mr [redacted] got his hot tub he called saying it wasn't working properly [redacted] and I both went on the service call because I was still very new on the jobThe work order shows we replaced a [redacted] control pack and topside with another [redacted] and topsideThe serial numbers recorded showed that both control packs and both topsides were built by [redacted] in mid-2009, shortly before they were installed in Mr [redacted] 's hot tubThey were NOT "used parts"The statement that they were used parts is COMPLETELY AND PROVABLY UNTRUE 2) Mr [redacted] received chemicals for free in when he visited the store 3) In July 2012, Mr [redacted] brought in one of his pumps stating that it didn't workWe replaced it with a brand new one at no cost 4) In August 2012, Mr [redacted] brought the new pump back stating that it didn't workWe replaced it with another brand new one at no cost ) On June 27, 2014, Mr [redacted] brought in his control packThe work order indicates that his complaint was, "pump #will not run"The technicians notes say that "dip switches wrong"For the dipswitches to spontaneously reset to the wrong position almost years after delivery is virtually impossibleThe "repaired" control pack was returned to Mr [redacted] to reinstall himselfThe work order also states "***", which indicates the model of the pack 6) Mr [redacted] provided a picture of "his" pack to the Revdex.com which was then forwarded to usThe picture shows a model [redacted] pack, NOT a model [redacted] which all our records show is what is in [redacted] 's hot tubPerplexingly, we have documentation that shows that the [redacted] pack that [redacted] provided a picture of and claimed was his was actually in our facility on October 3, undergoing final testing before being delivered to [redacted] The [redacted] and the [redacted] use different connectors for the topside controls and are NOT interchangeable without also changing the topside controls Our records indicate that [redacted] brought the pump in to our shop and we exchanged it with a new one on July 24, [redacted] lives in [redacted] **I assume that he does not want to pay the mileage for a technician to travel there The last time one of our technicians saw [redacted] 's hot tub was September 28, when we replaced the control pack The warranty on the control pack was years from date of delivery and covered manufacturer's defects and labour The pump and the control pack are separate pieces of equipmentThere would be no reason to change out a control pack because the pump was bad I hope that helps if not, please ask (Case [redacted] More info from business.pdf)

Sun Ray is such an excellent placeAlways feel welcomeAnd there Hot Tubs are great, that is why we have bought two of their Hot Tubs nowCheers! Don & Carol S., [redacted]

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 11, 2014/06/24) */ Thank you for calling and forwarding me this information, I have discovered that this tub was delivered with a leak and a wire that needed to be extended so that the interior lights would workSunray sent a technician shortly after delivery and discovered this was a two man job and caused delays that we were not able to correct prior to the colder weatherWe have sent our service manager and our most experienced tech to correct this but have needed to go more than once [redacted] but we have been out once since this complaint was made and would have completed this except [redacted] himself was not available and we rescheduled for this coming Friday June 27, when we are sending two people at no charge and this will be properly solved

The customer purchased a new hot tub from us on September 5, and it was delivered on September 19, It was installed with new control pack Serial # *** and new pumpsAfter the delivery the customer reported on Sept 26, that the hot tub did not work properlyOn
September 28, our service department went to the customer home and replaced the control pack and topside at no charge to the customerOn December 4, the customer referred on of his relatives to us and they purchased a hot tub from us, which he was paid a $referral for recommending usThe next time that we heard from the customer was on July 16, stating that the pump was seizedThis time the customer brought the pump to us in the shopWe received the pump with no faceplate and found that the winding had welded them self to the housing and that the pump was not repairableWe then replaced the pump at no charge to the customerThe customer was informed of this on July 17, and stated that he would pithe new replacement pump on July 23, and installed the new pump himselfOn August 28, the customer stated that the pump had failed and again was given a new pump at no cost to replace the one received on July 17, 2012.The customer reinstalled the pump himselfThe next time that we heard from the customer was on June 27, at the time brought in his pack and we found that the setting switches had been adjusted improperly, but had ran for years without complaint from the customerThe customer then took the pack home and reinstalled himselfThe next time that we heard from the customer was on October 11, 2014, by phone stating that he was going to come to our service department to get a new packLater that same day the customer arrived without the pack and asked to be given a new pack at no cost and without having the old pack to give to usHe was told that if he wished to take a new pack home that he would have to pay for it in advance and after we had received the old pack and it was confirmed that it was under warranty that it would be returnedWhen it was mentioned that he would have to pay the customer went wild and said that he would not be paying and that the hot tub never worked properly
After more than years and after the warranty had expired he is now stating, that the hot tub never worked properly and want all or half of his money backTo have the hot tub for 5+ years, take a referral for obtaining a friend or relative to purchase a hot tub from us, having got service calls well outside of the free service area and after the in home warranty had expired at no charge, and received a replacement pump shows that the customer was very satisfied with their purchase and the service that was given to themThe customer had received as well, free hot tub products and has not purchased any other goods or service from Sunray

(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
$200.00 referral was 5 years ago and my brother had problems with his tub Too!!
I haven't and never will reference you to anyone even for $1000.
On your emails you said you fixed the controller panel !! So why do I still have the old one in I took that picture last year and you guys said on email that its the WRONG PART!!
I BEEN TRYING TO GET YOU GUYS TO FIX IT FOR ALMOST 5 YEARS .YOUR SERVICE Department said it was a used part
[redacted]
[redacted]

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 11, 2014/06/24) */
Thank you for calling and forwarding me this information, I have discovered that this tub was delivered with a leak and a wire that needed to be extended so that the interior lights would work. Sunray sent a technician shortly after...

delivery and discovered this was a two man job and caused delays that we were not able to correct prior to the colder weather. We have sent our service manager and our most experienced tech to correct this but have needed to go more than once. [redacted] but we have been out once since this complaint was made and would have completed this except [redacted] himself was not available and we rescheduled for this coming Friday June 27, when we are sending two people at no charge and this will be properly solved.

Sun Ray is such an excellent place. Always feel welcome. And there Hot Tubs are great, that is why we have bought two of their Hot Tubs now. Cheers! Don & Carol S., [redacted]

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 13, 2015/02/19) */
Contact Name and Title: [redacted]
Contact Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Contact Email: [redacted]@sunrayspas.ca
We received the work order to service the customer's hot tub. There were already a lot of notes and speculation written on it that...

didn't provide a clear picture of the problem. The one message we received from it was "fix the hot tub".
We spoke to the customer before the Service Tech went out to inform her that we were able to make it a day earlier than scheduled. The customer started explaining various symptoms but there was nothing new from what was already on the work order. The service tech explained that he would diagnose the problems at the hot tub. The customer asked if she needed to be there. The service tech said it wasn't necessary. Most people have to take a day off work to be there and, at the end, feel like it was a waste of their time being home to watch the work.
The service tech went to her address and found the hot tub set in a deck. The outside temperature was between -10C & -4 C. The customer had not placed a heater inside the cabinet of the hot tub to limit damage. One board had been removed at the edge of the deck. Despite the service managers diagnosis over the phone that the heater element was gone (which would be a cost of $283.95), taken from the customers statement that it wasn't heating and the possibility of other problem was recognised by both the service manger and the customer. The service tech discovered that Pump #1 was leaking at the seals and the water had damaged the front bearing. The bearing was quite noisy and the pump was running very hot. This was resulting in the pump tripping off and the heater not starting as a result. To leave and return to complete with the approval of the customer, would have increased the cost by $99.00 and lengthen the time of completing for at least a couple of days. The service tech then powered down the tub and struggled to remove the pump through a 16" gap on the deck while laying prone and working at the tips of his fingers. The leakage from the pump had rusted the bolts so badly that the service tech could not turn them to remove the pump This was not easy due to the access restrictions. After removing the pump, the service tech installed a new pump and restarted the hot tub. After priming the pump, everything was running normally. The service tech checked the settings on the topside, seemed all OK. The job was completed and cleaned up (eg: removing the faulty pump). The service tech communicated to the Service manager that it was a pump problem and that he'd replaced it with a new pump. All was okay.
When the service tech arrived at the shop the next morning, the service manager told him that the customer had called to enquire what had happened. The service tech returned her call and explained the charges and the customer thought the price of the pump was too expensive (the Service tech had discounted the price from $699.95 to $649.95). The customer seemed okay with that. She asked why the service tech hadn't called her with a quote while the service tech was at her house. The service tech replied that the service techs don't have a company cell and it is company policy to not use personal cell phone to communicate with customers. The service tech explained that trying to get messages to customers through the service manager or whoever is not busy at Sun Ray can take up a lot of time during a busy day. The service tech explained that he had already exceeded the 1 hour labour that was charged due to the access restrictions of working off the deck and had struggled to replace the pump. The service tech asked if it was now okay to run the charges through on her credit card and to the best of his memory, she replied that she didn't seem to have much choice. Although the service tech understood her not being happy with the charges, we do not provide free quotes and had already reduced the price as much as the service tech was allowed. The charges were then processed on the credit card number supplied.
Resolution
We at Sun Ray feel very badly that the customer had a unpleasant experience with the Sun Ray Service Dept. We have taken steps to prevent it from happening in the future, regardless of how busy the schedule is. We at Sun Ray would like to extend our apologies to this and all customers for not clearly communicating at every step and gaining consensus before proceeding. The non operational pump was sent for scrap on Feb 6, 2015, and we are unable to return your pump. To compensate, we are offering a $100.00 In store credit to use in the service department or for supplies for the operation of your hot tub.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 15, 2015/02/20) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
In [redacted]'s first paragraph he states that the work order had a lot of notes and speculation written on it. It was [redacted] that was spoken with, so those notes and speculations were his. The "fix the tub" must be Sun Ray's own rendition of what they felt should happen as it was asked if we would be told of the problem by tech to which we were told the tech would need to have a look first as it might be different than the heating coil as [redacted] suspected.
2nd paragraph states that the Tech would "diagnose the problems at the hot tub." Most people would assume diagnosing and repairing as 2 separate items. I had not problem coming home for the Tech but he said he would head out and take a look; again, "take a look" does not infer repairing. We had no issue with the initial estimate from [redacted] of approximately $300; but when it escalated to just about $900, we should have been notified and given the option of the repair; which we were not.
The hot tub being set in the deck should not have been a surprise as one of the questions [redacted] asked when the service call was booked was if the hot tub was on the ground, on a deck or built in. He was advised at that time that it was built in but there was a board in front of the panel that was hinged. He asked that we have that hinged open for the Tech just in case it would freeze and then it would be accessible for the Tech. This was not a hidden fact as [redacted] specifically asked and was told.
Just as I was immediately available on my cell at work for [redacted] to contact about the Tech coming a day early, I was just as available for the Tech to call and advise of the exact problem and cost to repair. In fact, I waited for this call but it never came; so, later in the day I contacted [redacted] to get a status report and was advised that the work was already completed. I asked [redacted] for a cost but he said he couldn't provide one until the Tech came into the shop the next day to invoice it. Whatever difficulties the Tech had to remove the pump is all part of service work.
When contact with the Tech was made the next day, he complained of having to work on the hot tub being built into the deck. He was advised that [redacted] asked and had been told this when the service call was initially booked. The Tech's account of asking if he couod run it through on our [redacted] and was told that I didn't agree with the cost but we didn't really have a choice seeing as they already had the [redacted] information. No offer to have the owner, manager or someone with the authority to look at this situation was made. Instead, the Tech put through the charge.
We did not ask for a "free quote" as most service places (automotive repair shops, computer repairs, etc.) [redacted]'t provide them for free. But to be advised that the cost could go as high as $900 or a quick call, like auto or computer shops do, advising of the actual cost before the work is done would have been appreciated. To spend someone else's money without their consent is not acceptable.
[redacted]
Sun Ray's Resolution indicated that they scrapped our pump on February 6 but we believe they did not have it as their email dated January 27 that they would come back out and reinstall it. We responded on February 9 with no further communication from them in this regard. So if they offered to replace it, why would they throw it away before receiving our response?
Sun Ray's resolution to this problem of offering $100 service credit is not acceptable; we think $100 credit back to our [redacted].
Final Business Response /* (4000, 37, 2015/04/17) */
To respond to the statement about the installation, the plug is not supplied with the new pump and is not included in the pricing of a new pump. Different type of plugs are used on different control pack, the practice of using the existing one is very common unless there is damage to the existing one. When changing out equipment in the winter months a unions are tighten to the maximum when they are cold , as they warm up the plastic component change shape and the unions may require to be retightened if they start to leak. This is not a return call that is free and most customer retighten leaking joints them self, unless they are willing to pay a return visit to tighten unions. Originally we offered to return and pick up the new pump and install the unusable old one a return the payment for the cost of the pump only to the customer. This was refused. Now since the pump has been used for the last 4 month and is no longer new, its value has dropped. We are still offering to return and remove the installed pump, but the valve of the pump is now at 50% of the original cost. The fee for the service call and the time are still the customers responsibility. If the customer wishes we will bring out a old pump and leave it at their home, but it will not be their original pump. The new pump was charged out at $649.95 plus gst. We will offer to return to their credit card 50% of this $324.98 plus gst. Thanks
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 39, 2015/04/27) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
It would have been appropriate to be advised that the unions would need retightening just like when you have tires rotated or installed, they advise you to check your lug nuts after so many km. The plug we were inquiring about was not on the control panel but the pump itself. Again, we were never notified that they were not able to put the old one back in due to damage; that only comes out now when we inquire about it and did not have the opportunity to see the old pump.
Yes, they did offer to return the old pump and only reimburse us for the cost of the new pump but not service call or installation fees. We ONLY refused this part. We did request our old pump but were then advised that they had not kept it but already thrown it out.....go figure. We have never requested they take the new pump out but they keep insisting on this.
We requested a credit back on to our visa which we are assuming they refused as they have never replied to that request.
Again, at this point in time, the only recourse acceptable would be a refund to our visa.

Most importantly, the control pack that Mr. [redacted] demanded we give him . . supposedly to replace his . . . was off warranty. His tub was delivered in September 2009. He came here in early October 2014. His 5 year warranty had expired.
The rest really doesn't matter. It becomes emotional because Mr. [redacted] was extremely verbally abusive to [redacted]. He was shouting and demanding and unwilling to listen to anything [redacted] had to say. It was quite upsetting. It becomes more frustrating because he DID NOT bring his old control pack with him. Regardless of the warranty issue, I don't think it is a good business practice to dispense $750 parts without some sort of return of the defective ones. If you reference #5 below, you will see that Mr. [redacted] felt quite competent uninstalling and reinstalling his control pack. Unfortunately, if we were to stand on principle, when he reinstalled his control pack himself in June 2014, he voided his warranty.
Some history . . .
1) Shortly after Mr. [redacted] got his hot tub he called saying it wasn't working properly. [redacted] and I both went on the service call because I was still very new on the job. The work order shows we replaced a [redacted] control pack and topside with another [redacted] and topside. The serial numbers recorded showed that both control packs and both topsides were built by [redacted] in mid-2009, shortly before they were installed in Mr. [redacted]'s hot tub. They were NOT "used parts". The statement that they were used parts is COMPLETELY AND PROVABLY UNTRUE.
2) Mr. [redacted] received chemicals for free in 2010 when he visited the store.
3) In July 2012, Mr. [redacted] brought in one of his pumps stating that it didn't work. We replaced it with a brand new one at no cost.
4) In August 2012, Mr. [redacted] brought the new pump back stating that it didn't work. We replaced it with another brand new one at no cost.
5 ) On June 27, 2014, Mr. [redacted] brought in his control pack. The work order indicates that his complaint was, "pump #2 will not run". The technicians notes say that "dip switches wrong". For the dipswitches to spontaneously reset to the wrong position almost 5 years after delivery is virtually impossible. The "repaired" control pack was returned to Mr. [redacted] to reinstall himself. The work order also states "[redacted]", which indicates the model of the pack.
6) Mr. [redacted] provided a picture of "his" pack to the Revdex.com which was then forwarded to us. The picture shows a model [redacted] pack, NOT a model [redacted] which all our records show is what is in [redacted]'s hot tub. Perplexingly, we have documentation that shows that the [redacted] pack that [redacted] provided a picture of and claimed was his was actually in our facility on October 3, 2009 undergoing final testing before being delivered to [redacted]. The [redacted] and the [redacted] use different connectors for the topside controls and are NOT interchangeable without also changing the topside controls.
Our records indicate that [redacted] brought the pump in to our shop and we exchanged it with a new one on July 24, 2012. [redacted] lives in [redacted]. I assume that he does not want to pay the mileage for a technician to travel there.
The last time one of our technicians saw [redacted]'s hot tub was September 28, 2009 when we replaced the control pack.
The warranty on the control pack was 5 years from date of delivery and covered manufacturer's defects and labour.
The pump and the control pack are separate pieces of equipment. There would be no reason to change out a control pack because the pump was bad.
I hope that helps . . . if not, please ask.
(Case [redacted] More info from business.pdf)