Madison Aluminum Products

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
As I explained earlier the leaking is due to a combination of the design of the gutter bracket and the manner in which it was installed. The business now offers to reinstall a different style of bracket. That is exactly what I asked the business to do prior to them coming to my house a second time, however, they refused. What they did do during their second visit was simply to reposition the same brackets, which did not stop the leaking. Their offer to install a different bracket at this time is not acceptable for three reasons.1) The business has made a number of statements and their explanations of the leaks are laughable. I do not want such a business back on my property. 2) Installing different brackets at this time would be the third time brackets would have been attached to the new gutter, resulting in three times the amount of screw holes in the gutter that there should be. In addition, some of the screw holes are very low. Each hole is a potential leak point and having all those holes is not acceptable. I do want different brackets but I also want a new gutter without all the holes.3) Their workmanship is poor. Examples: a) the company damaged my drip edge, b) the owner acknowledged using a weaker/smaller bracket screw than what they now use, and c) they attempted to put sealant over the exposed screw holes after repositioning the brackets but as you can see in the attached picture they completely missed the screw hole with the sealant. In this same picture you can see how the their brackets catch water on top of themselves and this water wicks up to the screw hole which causes the leaking.I want a refund of my $1,payment so I can hire a different business to install new gutters.Regards,
*** ***

Review: Company installed new gutters on house. Gutters leaked where the gutter bracket screws go through back of gutter. Water leaks through screw hole and down fascia board. I contacted the company and they came out a second time and adjusted the brackets but the leaks continued. Company made a number of excuses for leaks but none made any sense, latest excuse being that leaks are due to a defective roof job. That is untrue. If leaks were due to a roof/shingle problem the leaks would appear in random locations, but in actuality all leaks are directly below gutter bracket screws. Company's latest proposed resolution was to seal screw heads. This is unacceptable, a gutter system of any quality should not have to be sealed in such a manner, in addition sealant would make it difficult to remove the gutters in the future and such sealant breaks down over time. Because of the nonsensical explanations I was told for leaks I no longer trust company and do not want to deal with them again – instead I want a full refund so I can have gutters replaced. I believe the gutters leak because the brackets used are designed to be hooked over the top of the back of the gutter, however, that is not the way the company installed the brackets. Due to the way the brackets are installed they catch rain water and form a pool of water on top of the bracket that can wick up to the screw hole. I have provided pictures of the leaks to the company.Desired Settlement: Full refund of my $1,220 payment so I can use the money to have the gutters replaced by a different company.

Business

Response:

During the initial installation (9/4/2014) our customer told our

installation Foreman to install the

gutter brackets below or under the metal drip edge because he didn’t want any

screws going through the drip edge.

Because our Foreman wanted to please the customer, he did as the

customer requested. Our customer called us (9/11/2014) to report that he felt

water was getting through the back of the gutter and to the fascia by following

the screws through the brackets. The customer and I agreed on a date that we

could return to review and resolve any problems (10/7/14) that might

exist. Myself ([redacted]), our sales

person, and the original installation crew all met with our customer to listen

to and address his concerns. We found that the brackets were installed lower

in the back of the gutter as the customer requested. In many cases, the brackets were indeed

angling downward toward the fascia. This

also caused the holes through the back of the gutter to be lower than if

installed using our normal or standard practices. After closely examining the gutter

installation, my sales person and I agreed that the brackets were installed too

low and that if water was getting through the screw hole by following the

screw, this would have been the reason.

We reinstalled all the brackets higher to ensure they angled or sloped

toward the front of the gutter (as they should have been during the original

installation) and approximately one inch to the right of the existing location

in order to leave room to seal the original screw holes. We

then thoroughly sealed all the old holes from the initial installation with

silicone. While we were there, we discovered

and also sealed (with silicone) several large gaps in the drip edge where the

roof edge and roof gable meet (near the ends of the gutters). These gaps in the drip edge were left by the

roofer who had installed a new roof about a year ago. While we were there we examined the roof

edges as good as we could without raising or removing any existing shingles to

determine if the roof had been properly installed. We are not roofers. However, we have been installing gutters for

over 40 years and are experienced in the trades. We feel through our experience, we know and

understand what a quality roof installation looks like. We feel there could be issues with his new

roof. The customers roof has a gentle

pitch (not uncommon) with four inches or less drop for every one foot of roof

surface (we estimated around 3 ½ “ to every 12” or 4” to every 12”). On a gentle or mild pitched

roof, water can in some cases find its way up and under the shingles at the

edges of the roof. Steeper roofs have

less problems in this area. After

reviewing the roof edges, we felt that in some areas the shingles may not be

extending far enough past or beyond the top of the drip edge. In addition we felt that in a few areas it

appeared that ice and water shield or roof felt paper had not been installed

far enough down over the drip edge and

may not be covering all the drip edge thoroughly. The customer brought to our attention that he

had concerns with his roofer and had to resolve issues with the roof vents

himself.

We have not been made aware by any customer in the past that our

brackets were causing this type of problem.

We feel we resolved all potential issues with the brackets on his house and

also helped prevent other potential future roof issues by sealing drip edge

gaps that were left by the roofer.

We have asked our customer if we can work with him to resolve this

issue. I informed him that we would be

happy to bring at no charge to him a highly qualified and reputable roofing

company representative to examine his roof and to present possible solutions to

this problem. There are several steps

that can be taken to verify through the process of elimination the root cause

of this problem. We feel the right thing

to do is to work toward the final resolution or cure to the problem. I informed him that we would be more that

happy to work with him until it is resolved.

We installed four gutter sections at his home. Two on the garage and two on the house. All

having downspouts installed as well. To

our knowledge, the water problem is only occurring with the two gutters on the

house. In addition, the downspouts have

no problems and are functioning properly.

If our gutter installation is indeed the issue, we will resolve

it. We take pride in our reputation of

standing behind our work. We ask only

for the opportunity to work toward final resolution.

Sincerely,

Madison Aluminum Products, LLC

Business

Response:

In my original response to this complaint on 11/7/2014, I made this

statement: ‘To our knowledge, the water problem is only occurring with the two

gutters on the house.’ Upon further review of

the three photos sent via email to me on 10/23/2014 from our customer, I

do see on the first photo labeled [redacted] that the two leaks our customer

is noting were in deed on the east side roof edge of his garage roof. As the photos were not labeled identifying

the specific areas, I did make an incorrect assumption that the leaks were only

occurring on the two house gutters. My

oversight in this area was by no means intentional. This would indicate that

one of the four gutters has no leaks with the same gutter brackets installed in

the same fashion.

I stand by all other statements I made

earlier on my response dated 11/7/2014 to this complaint.

We strongly feel that water from rain fall is getting behind the gutter

& possibly the fascia not from water in the gutter but from water along the

roof edge and is tracking to the screw which goes through the gutter and our

internal gutter bracket into the fascia framing. This water then tracks downward and becomes

visible on the exterior of the fascia below the gutter in line with our

internal gutter brackets where the screw is attached. All our gutter brackets are attached in the

same manner throughout the entire gutter system. If these leaks are still occurring in the

same generalized areas even after adjustments to the brackets were made, it could

indicate that there may indeed be potential roof edge issues in these specific

areas. Prior to gutters being installed, when or if

rain fall occurred, one would have seen the presence of water dripping down

evenly throughout the entire exterior of the fascia off the roof edge since no

gutters would have been in place to capture and divert the water. Screws used

to attach the gutter brackets to the gutter and to the building fascia provide

a location for water surface tension to

occur if water is seeking an outlet

path.

Although we do not feel a different gutter bracket will make a

difference, we will be happy to

reinstall all new gutter brackets of our customer’s choice on all four gutters.

We will offer to purchase them for him

or reimburse him for his purchase of these brackets. We do ask that our customer consider allowing

us to utilize the stronger 1 ½ “ long by #10 gutter screw for the added

strength as we currently utilize for our gutter brackets.

This would verify our customer’s concern about our brackets. We would then like to monitor this along with

our customer during or after a couple of different rain fall periods to verify

any changes.

If the leaks persist in the same generalized areas, I can only again

offer our continued support in assisting to determine the root cause of these

leaks.

Again, we have been in business now for over 40 years and have

Builders, Roofers, Remodelers and Homeowners who we have worked with for years

and who will stand behind us and validate that our company will cure or seek to

cure any workmanship, quality or material defects when or if given the

opportunity to do so. We are not aware

of any previous Revdex.com customer complaints over our past 40 years of business.

Sincerely,

Madison Aluminum Products, LLC

Consumer

Response: