Five Rings Financial, LLC

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/09/22) */ To whom it may concern, This is a response to the complaint filed by [redacted] on 9/8/to the Revdex.com about Five Rings Financial and I would like to address his complaints in order Mr [redacted] claims that we offered him an "investment" opportunity and then I "pocketed" his money The fact of the matter is that we do not, ever, use the word "investment" in any of our presentations, educational classes or conversationsBecause we do not utilize any type of stock market products, and because I am insurance licensed vs securities licensed, the word "investment" is never used per industry standards The idea that I "pocketed" his money is ridiculous and incorrectThe initial payment check that was written by Mr [redacted] was written to [redacted] and every premium payment drafted from his account was directly to [redacted] which is a life insurance company Mr [redacted] claims that we wouldn't show him the "fund." Again, "fund" is not terminology used either, based on industry standardsAlso, at no time did Mr [redacted] contact me with his concerns about the policiesThe numbers that he is discussing are the surrender values or "early withdrawal charges," that are normally associated with insurance policiesAs per our phone conversation on 9/16/15, I conveyed that the policies both did have accumulated values, but the values were not fully accessible due to the surrender periodMr [redacted] proceeded with the surrendering of the policies on his own and against my recommendation Mr [redacted] claims that this product wasn't what he wanted I have documentation from the multiple meetings we had before the application was completed showing the costs of the insurance, accumulation periods and surrender values, all of which are signed by Mr [redacted] The detailed information in the illustrations that the [redacted] signed upon delivering of the policies showed the accumulated values on the policies were only $off of where the policies were when Mr [redacted] surrendered the policiesThese illustrations show the policies were performing exactly how we discussed when the clients signed and accepted the policies The policies these clients owned were designed to protect each other, protect their assets upon death, protect their assets if either became ill or injured and to build a cash value that can be accessed in the futureIt's unfortunate Mrand Mrs, [redacted] made their premium payments for years directly to [redacted] and they made the decision to surrender the policies against my recommendations, thus not fulfilling their commitment to their plan with [redacted] a year old, A rated, Top Life Insurance Companies in the country [redacted] Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 7, 2015/09/30) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) The response from the Business Owner completely solidifies my assertion of the sales malpractice approachThe response tries to use semantics of the words but the real fact is that the "organization", regardless it is Five Rings Financial or the [redacted] the client cannot officially see what happens to their money for months and when you do finally find out what happened you discover that the money goes to fund commissions and administrative feesCommissions are money that goes to the sales agent and administrative fees do go to provide for salaries and overhead of the "organization"Those are undeniable factsThe issue I have in the sales practice is that not knowing where the money goes for months is unacceptable Yes, I did surrender the policy to be able to save paying hundreds of thousands of dollars with a very lengthy ROI The lack of communication and documentation around such an expensive endeavor is unacceptable so, I do still believe that the "organization" still owns this issue and needs to respond an appropriate settlement that is near what was put into the policyI did make these requests but never received an official response with system generated documentationThe agent showed us a spreadsheet and charts that anyone could have generatedWhen asked to see more detail, I was sent to the company website where I could print brochures (fact: have email traffic to back that up)Just seemed shady On the emotional side, I do believe in hindsight that the agent and organization really only wanted the money and not a relationship as they did not even seem to really connect with their clients and unfortunately trust was lostIn the agent's response, he could not even spell my name right I would hope that if Five Rings does the right thing, but if not this needs to be posted so other are not hurt by their sales malpractice Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 20, 2015/11/25) */ Thank you for forwarding the recent counter response from Mr[redacted] After researching the details of this matter further it appears that Mr[redacted] was issued a policy in September of There were no concerns or communication from Mr[redacted] during the year of At the request of Mr[redacted] and after he was made aware of the surrender fees, the file was closed in October of At this time our records indicate the file is no longer active and is closed Please feel free to contact me at (XXX) XXX XXXX ext [redacted] should you have additional questions [redacted] Director of Administration & Operations Five Rings Financial (XXX) XXX-XXXX ext [redacted] Final Consumer Response / [redacted] (4200, 22, 2015/11/27) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) During the first year I repeatedly asked [redacted] for logon information and he did not provide it and sited that we needed to wait until the end of the second year to see the activityThat is the entire basis of my claimAt the end of the second year is when I had to cancel as I already lost almost $23,That is the entire pointI was not given access to see the activity but I paid every monthThe logon that was give did not show "what was happening" to the moneyWhen I finally could see the activity, I found that it was goneI was told at that time, two years later and $24,in that the money as spent on fees and commissions and not for me as it was suppose to beThis is a clear definition of a scamI still want the money backLet's be cleara company is not suppose to take money from people and put it toward something that it was not intendedThat is a scamPaid my money back!

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/09/22) */
To whom it may concern,
This is a response to the complaint filed by [redacted] on 9/8/15 to the Revdex.com about Five Rings Financial and I would like to address his complaints in order.

Mr. [redacted] claims that we offered him an...

"investment" opportunity and then I "pocketed" his money.

The fact of the matter is that we do not, ever, use the word "investment" in any of our presentations, educational classes or conversations. Because we do not utilize any type of stock market products, and because I am insurance licensed vs securities licensed, the word "investment" is never used per industry standards.
The idea that I "pocketed" his money is ridiculous and incorrect. The initial payment check that was written by Mr. [redacted] was written to [redacted] and every premium payment drafted from his account was directly to [redacted] which is a life insurance company.
2. Mr [redacted] claims that we wouldn't show him the "fund."
Again, "fund" is not terminology used either, based on industry standards. Also, at no time did Mr [redacted] contact me with his concerns about the policies. The numbers that he is discussing are the surrender values or "early withdrawal charges," that are normally associated with insurance policies. As per our phone conversation on 9/16/15, I conveyed that the policies both did have accumulated values, but the values were not fully accessible due to the surrender period. Mr [redacted] proceeded with the surrendering of the policies on his own and against my recommendation.
3. Mr. [redacted] claims that this product wasn't what he wanted.
I have documentation from the multiple meetings we had before the application was completed showing the costs of the insurance, accumulation periods and surrender values, all of which are signed by Mr. [redacted] The detailed information in the illustrations that the [redacted] signed upon delivering of the policies showed the accumulated values on the policies were only $20 off of where the policies were when Mr. [redacted] surrendered the policies. These illustrations show the policies were performing exactly how we discussed when the clients signed and accepted the policies.
The policies these clients owned were designed to protect each other, protect their assets upon death, protect their assets if either became ill or injured and to build a cash value that can be accessed in the future. It's unfortunate Mr. and Mrs, [redacted] made their premium payments for 2 years directly to [redacted] and they made the decision to surrender the policies against my recommendations, thus not fulfilling their commitment to their plan with [redacted] a 152 year old, A rated, Top 20 Life Insurance Companies in the country.
[redacted]
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/09/30) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The response from the Business Owner completely solidifies my assertion of the sales malpractice approach. The response tries to use semantics of the words but the real fact is that the "organization", regardless it is Five Rings Financial or the [redacted] the client cannot officially see what happens to their money for 24 months and when you do finally find out what happened you discover that the money goes to fund commissions and administrative fees. Commissions are money that goes to the sales agent and administrative fees do go to provide for salaries and overhead of the "organization". Those are undeniable facts. The issue I have in the sales practice is that not knowing where the money goes for 24 months is unacceptable.
Yes, I did surrender the policy to be able to save paying hundreds of thousands of dollars with a very lengthy ROI.
The lack of communication and documentation around such an expensive endeavor is unacceptable so, I do still believe that the "organization" still owns this issue and needs to respond an appropriate settlement that is near what was put into the policy. I did make these requests but never received an official response with system generated documentation. The agent showed us a spreadsheet and charts that anyone could have generated. When asked to see more detail, I was sent to the company website where I could print brochures (fact: have email traffic to back that up). Just seemed shady.
On the emotional side, I do believe in hindsight that the agent and organization really only wanted the money and not a relationship as they did not even seem to really connect with their clients and unfortunately trust was lost. In the agent's response, he could not even spell my name right.
I would hope that if Five Rings does the right thing, but if not this needs to be posted so other are not hurt by their sales malpractice.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 20, 2015/11/25) */
Thank you for forwarding the recent counter response from Mr.[redacted]. After researching the details of this matter further it appears that Mr.[redacted] was issued a policy in September of 2013. There were no concerns or communication from Mr.[redacted] during the year of 2014. At the request of Mr.[redacted] and after he was made aware of the surrender fees, the file was closed in October of 2015. At this time our records indicate the file is no longer active and is closed.
Please feel free to contact me at (XXX) XXX XXXX ext. [redacted] should you have additional questions.
[redacted]
Director of Administration & Operations
Five Rings Financial
(XXX) XXX-XXXX ext [redacted]
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 22, 2015/11/27) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
During the first year I repeatedly asked [redacted] for logon information and he did not provide it and sited that we needed to wait until the end of the second year to see the activity. That is the entire basis of my claim. At the end of the second year is when I had to cancel as I already lost almost $23,000. That is the entire point. I was not given access to see the activity but I paid every month. The logon that was give did not show "what was happening" to the money. When I finally could see the activity, I found that it was gone. I was told at that time, two years later and $24,000 in that the money as spent on fees and commissions and not for me as it was suppose to be. This is a clear definition of a scam. I still want the money back. Let's be clear... a company is not suppose to take money from people and put it toward something that it was not intended. That is a scam. Paid my money back!