Champion Windows & Sunrooms

Warning about Champion Windows and doors.
15 years ago, I contracted with Champion for windows, doors and a sunroom. While I have been satisfied with windows and doors, the sunroom is an issues. Having spent 16K, I expected a quality product. Recently we found a soft spot in the floor. As we investigated further we had found a leak in the external seam. They have ben here 4 times, and have not been able to fix the leak. They sent an adjuster from their insurance company who estimated damage to about $1300 to repair the damage to the floor. To date I cannot even receive a return phone call or have my inquiries answered by corporate. I am so disappointed in this company, and am now evaluating my options. This battle has been ongoing for 7 months. According to their warranty, this repair should have been covered. I would not recommend this company if you are considering them

We originally contracted with Champion to install a Sunroom on our elevated deck. They gave us a quote and everything went well until they installed the frame without the windows. They said it would be a few weeks without windows installed. Since this is a elevated deck without any safety rails a fall hazard now exists. They asked if it was an issue that they left it this way. I told them yes it is an issue with 4 children in the house from ages 6 mo - 10 years. They said they would come back and make it safe. They never did. I ended up putting plywood in the footers to stop anyone from falling through those. Picture is attached.

Champion came back out 4 weeks later and eventually installed most of the windows. They then over charged us $7,000 because of a billing mistake. It took us 3 weeks to get the money back.

Latest issue is water damage. We have been calling for 5 weeks now to get someone to take a look at it as the subfloor continues to deteriorate. I have spoken with the Operations manager several time who always says he is going to take a look at it but never shows up. I have called the corporate office several times with no change.

Decent product, terrible customer service.

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 8, 2015/10/23) */ We met with the customer last week and let them know our intention is to get the glass rightOther issues with the caulk etcwould be correctedAlfred L [redacted] , our installation manger will be heading up the project himself Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 10, 2015/10/27) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) with reservations we will allow Champion one more attempt to remedy the installationHowever there is an deference of opinion on the installation of the frameIt is out of plumb on the exterior wall and out of level at the headerBoth need to be corrected Regards [redacted]

Mr [redacted] and Champion entered into a contract on September 30th for WHITE windows inside and outThe customers windows would be delivered in a 4-week time frameMr [redacted] lives in a condo associationHe needs his windows to be bronze on the exterior per association requirementsChampion offers a color bonding process that is done at our factory to accommodate such instances, but due to the up charge, Mr [redacted] chose to paint them himselfThe white windows that were custom ordered, came in and were installed on 11/14/Mr [redacted] signed the completion form where it stated that he was completed and satisfiedAt the time of completion Mr [redacted] paid his invoice in full.From my conversation with Mr [redacted] today, Mr [redacted] then painted the windows bronzeChampion is not a painting companyWe refer all customers that choose to paint their windows to painting professionals due to the specific process needed when painting vinylChampion can not speak to the installation nor paint used on Mr [redacted] s windows because Mr [redacted] completed that installation.Mr [redacted] did indeed reach out to his factory representative to ask about the paint after the paint he installed began to peelThe factory representative let Mr [redacted] know that since we had nothing to do with the installation of his paint, that we did not warranty the paintMr [redacted] according to our records has had two seperate conversations with his Factory representative where in those conversations the representative has again referred the customer to painting professionalsChampion has dealt with multiple customers that have associations that have painted their windows across the country with no issuesAt no point was I contacted by Mr [redacted] I left Mr a message yesterday as soon as I saw this complaint for Mr [redacted] to call me backAfter no response I called Mr [redacted] again todayIn our conversation, I informed Mr [redacted] that if there was anything regarding the installation or a factory issue with the product, we stand ready to rectify any of those issues under our lifetime warranty on the product and the installationAt this point, Mr [redacted] is aware that we cannot warranty his installation of his materials, but if there are any other issues he is to call me directlyAs of today, Mr [redacted] is sending me installation pictures to make sure the windows were installed correctlyIf they were not, the windows will be reinstalled and remade per contract if neededChampion looks forward to getting this resolved immediately and continuing to service any and all customers moving forwardSincerely,Criss M***Division Manager

I am not sure how to add all of this information to the Revdex.com complaintIn a nut shell Mr M [redacted] does not admit the wondows are the wrong sizeHe is refusing to remove the trim to do an inspection of the gaps in the window and to get a correct measurement for the building frame sizeThe only way to determine if the windows are to small is to remove the trim and look at themThis is part of their warranty and Mr M [redacted] is refusing to do soWhen asked how they could be inspected without removing the trim he refused to replyI have sent a message to Peter A [redacted] the VP of North America and I am awaiting his response.I did receive the arbitration information that you had discussedOn the phone you said that it was not legally binding and that there was no fee involvedThe email you sent did not reflect the same languageI don't understand[redacted]

Mr [redacted] is a previous customer of Champion who called us out to give him a quote on 1/07/to replacie his patio doorMy factory representative went out on 1/10/and gave him a price that was agreed upon to replace the door with a custom ordered Champion vinyl patio doorThat door was measured and ordered on 1/16/It was ordered and batched at the factory and was manufactured for the customerSince Mr [redacted] 's contact of our office, we have spoke multiple times and continue to have open dialogueAs I have stated to him, there are multiple reasons that could be causing his existing door to have moisture build up on the insideHumidity is definitely oneWhenever humidity is greater on one side than the other, it can cause moistureAnother cause could be that the door is leaking very cold air and the warm air blowing from the furnace on to that cold glass can be the culpritIf it was our door, our service technician would come out and check for leaks and if we could not find a leak we would do a condensation checklist to determine if the humidity was causing it and where it might be coming fromThat being said, Mr [redacted] called us out for a quote to replace his existing doorOur representative saw the issue, but along with Mr [redacted] still do not know the cause of the moistureWe went through a very cold spell when the moisture was there, to a very warm spell when Mr [redacted] tried to cancel when the moisture was gone.As far as the warranty that Mr [redacted] has on his existing door, we were definitely unaware of thatThe vast majority of warranties in this industry do not cover moisture on the panes that can be wiped offHis warranty may cover his seal failure where the moisture is in between the panesI am not sure if it is covered, if the labor is covered, or anything else regarding the company that made the doorThat was not discussed at time of quote, sale, measure, or orderUnfortunately in our industry it is our experience from our customers that unless the company makes and installs the product there are many loopholes that manufacturers get out of their warrantyThat is why our model of making and installing is so successfulBecause these are custom ordered products, we don't make anything until we have an orderOnce it is past the day right to cancel and the product is measured and ordered, the homeowner can cancel but must incur the costs that were stated on the original contract dated 1/10/At this point, we stand willing to install the product or push the installation back to a time that is more convenient for the homeowner to re-evaluate the door to determine if he wants to replace the door now or notI have told him we are willing to hold onto this door until he has that time neededCriss M***Division Manager

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/10/01) */ We apologize for the delay in getting the job startedI had the Sun room manager (Sammy) contact the customer and schedule the work to be done with herIt is currently scheduled for this Friday,October (weather permitting)I spoke with Sam regarding the importance of updating customers to the status of their project and also returning calls to them in a timely mannerI would like to thank the customer for bringing this to our attentionI believe it will help us in being better in the future Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (2000, 7, 2015/10/11) */ (The consumer indicated he/she ACCEPTED the response from the business.) As soon as this case was opened I did get an immediate response from the companyThe screen room was installed days laterIt looks great and the neighbors have a lot of nice compliments about itThere may or may not be a leak in the center of the roomHard to tell so after discussing with Sam we are going to wait and seeI looked at the contract again and it did say installation would be in approximately weeks, not monthsHad someone called me (or returned my calls) saying they were running behind I would have accepted thatI have talked to Sam times since the case opened and not once did he acknowledge that he failed to return my many callsI find that a little rude and unprofessionalOther than that I am very pleased with my new room

Hi,Adam just spoke with Mrs [redacted] and is going back out on July 5, his scheduled day off, to take care of any issues.Tell us why here

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/06/14) */
At the time of signing the contract for the windows the customer also initialed and signed a Lead AcknowledgementThis clearly states the amount the customer is responsible for paying if their home tests positive for leadThis home DID test
positive for lead, therefore $was charged to their account per the Lead AcknowledgementThe amount of $is past due on this account

I strongly disagree with the consumerThis factory representative has been with the company for over fifteen yearsChampion has never, nor will ever tolerate any deceptive practicesWe have checks and balances on custom ordered products to assure satisfactionWhen these windows were measured, the measure tech also spoke of the paintingThe homeowner was again referred to the painting companyWe again cannot warranty any materials or installation that we did not do.As far as the photos, as of now I personally have not received any of the photos even though I gave Mr*** my email address yesterdayI do however see pictures that the homeowner has provided the Revdex.comAs I told the homeowner we will stand behind any issues with the product or installation that we have doneI have asked Mr*** to reach out to me directly to send me the pictures and for us to set up a time to inspect the windows to make sure they are installed correctlyAt this point I have still not received any further communication since my phone call yesterday to Mr***I think it is unfortunate that Mr*** continues to communicate through the Revdex.com instead of me directly like he said he would yesterdayI believe since he is not getting the answer he wants, he is using the Revdex.com as a vehicle to see if Champion will just buckle and this will go awayIf we had any part in the decision Mr*** chose for the part, we would gladly share in the responsibility. We are truly sorry that the process Mr*** chose to use on his windows did not adhere to the custom white windows he chose and paid for to complete the contractWhen I spoke to him yesterday, he said he used proper techniquesIn his response above he stated he used "normal" paintChampion cannot be held hostage because the process Mr*** choseUnfortunately, I believe because of the process Mr.*** chose, he is having buyers remorse that he didn't choose the upgrade originally.Again, if there are any issues with the windows Mr*** ordered and had installed, we stand ready to fix as our Lifetime Warranty states. This could have all been avoided if Mr*** would have chose the upgrade for the ColorBonding process we offerDue to the price difference, he declined.If there are issues with the windows installed, we would replace them at no charge per the contract white in and outIf Mr*** would like to replace the white in white out windows with our ColorBond white in and Bronze out, I am willing to do those at costI feel at this point we are being more than fair with Mr***Until I inspect the installation that Mr*** signed off on that he was satisfied, in my opinion Champion has done nothing wrongThe process Mr*** chose to paint his windows is the issueThat was his decisionIt was his decision to buy white in and white outIt was his decision to paint the windows with "normal" paintAnd it was his decision to not consult a painting professional prior to painting the custom made windowsNone of those decisions Champion can be liable.I stand ready to inspect the installation as soon as Mr*** reaches out to us to get it scheduled

I am rejecting this response because:
The salesman from Champion stated that these windows could be painted with exterior paintIn fact they can only be painted by a special process that requires a bonding agent base coat and additional special paint available from Sherwin WilliamsThe salesman used deceptive practices to make it sound like it would be easier and cheaper to paint the windows than to use the factory process that cost $moreand misleading statements from the salesman and installer about how to paint the windows were made.I sent photos to Mr M*** showing the gaps between the window and the structural frameI have provided these images to the Revdex.com as well to show that the windows were indeed made to small for the openings and simply filled with spray foam to to fill the gapNo response from Mr M*** after sending the imagesThe first attached image clearly shows a gap of almost inchesThe second photo was taken at a distance and I was unable to measure the gap though it is quite largeI will wait to hear more from the company but the matter is not resolved at this point

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/09/15) */
Our records indicate that in July of we sold the customer double hung window and picture windowThe installation took place September 4,Our records show that there was service that took place in and that one of the
windows was catching.The issue was corrected and there was no service charge since the service occurred within years of the installationThe customers warranty clearly explains that after years there is no charge for labor and material but there is a nominal service trip chargeIt is our standard practice to give the customer a copy of the warranty at point of sale and upon completion of installationWe would be happy to inspect the window of concern and order the customer a new one if indeed it needs to be replaced at no charge for the labor or materials as the warranty indicates, however there would be a service charge
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/09/17) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The salesman had no problem driving from Akron to sell me $worth of windows at no charge for the tripWhy should I pay 'anything' to have a DEFECTIVE product looked at ? Maybe I should just call & tell the salesman I'm considering having more windows replaced,then I'm sure he'd come down for free ,then he could look at the DEFECTIVE window and I could get it replaced.NO CHARGE.In Hindsite we had the windows instlled because when we moved into the houee in the old windows also had a few with the same problem.The salesman assured us that would NEVER happen with new Champion windows but if it did they would be replaced at NO CHARGE.How can it be NO CHARGE if they want to charge $to just look at it.I might just have to wait for a sunny day and try to take the smal window out myself ,drive it to Kent ,let them look at it,drive back to Canton and try to reinstall (until I get the new one) while hoping my heart problems don't act up (one heart attack and two open heart surgeries) or my wife finds out what I might be planing
Final Business Response /* (4000, 14, 2015/09/29) */
We would be happy to accept the homeowners suggestion to resolve this matterHave the customer contact Kathleen at our office so that she can set up a time on the install managers schedule to inspect and order a new window for the customer
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 16, 2015/10/07) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
David,
After more careful consideration my wife and I decided to call a few local glass companies
We can have the glass (window) replaced with the double pane E glass (comparable to the Champion window) for as low as $I'm sure the companies are still making a profit at that price.So we are rescinding our offer to take the window to Champion where I may say or do something I might regret later.My medical condition requires my wife to go with me if I drive.It's not worth the risk to my stress level to even give them an excuse to not warranty their defective windowWe will no longer 'ever' be doing any business with the Champion window company nor recommending to any of our friends or our relatives to do business with them
For less than $they could have saved a good customer and avoided this small verbal confrontation
Thank you for all of your help and advice
*** & *** ***

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2015/10/23) */
We met with the customer last week and let them know our intention is to get the glass right. Other issues with the caulk etc. would be corrected. Alfred L[redacted], our installation manger will be heading up the project himself.
Initial...

Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 10, 2015/10/27) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
with reservations we will allow Champion one more attempt to remedy the installation. However there is an deference of opinion on the installation of the frame. It is out of plumb on the exterior wall and out of level at the header. Both need to be corrected
Regards
[redacted]

Hi,Adam just spoke with Mrs. [redacted] and is going back out on July 5, his scheduled day off, to take care of any issues.Tell us why here...

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/10/01) */
We apologize for the delay in getting the job started. I had the Sun room manager (Sammy) contact the customer and schedule the work to be done with her. It is currently scheduled for this Friday,October 2 (weather permitting). I spoke with Sam...

regarding the importance of updating customers to the status of their project and also returning calls to them in a timely manner. I would like to thank the customer for bringing this to our attention. I believe it will help us in being better in the future.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (2000, 7, 2015/10/11) */
(The consumer indicated he/she ACCEPTED the response from the business.)
As soon as this case was opened I did get an immediate response from the company. The screen room was installed 2 days later. It looks great and the neighbors have a lot of nice compliments about it. There may or may not be a leak in the center of the room. Hard to tell so after discussing with Sam we are going to wait and see. I looked at the contract again and it did say installation would be in approximately 9 weeks, not 4 months. Had someone called me (or returned my calls) saying they were running behind I would have accepted that. I have talked to Sam 3 times since the case opened and not once did he acknowledge that he failed to return my many calls. I find that a little rude and unprofessional. Other than that I am very pleased with my new room.

I am not sure how to add all of this information to the Revdex.com complaint. In a nut shell Mr M[redacted] does not admit the wondows are the wrong size. He is refusing to remove the trim to do an inspection of the gaps in the window and to get a correct measurement for the building frame size. The only way to determine if the windows are to small is to remove the trim and look at them. This is part of their warranty and Mr M[redacted] is refusing to do so. When asked how they could be inspected without removing the trim he refused to reply. I have sent a message to Peter A[redacted] the VP of North America and I am awaiting his response.I did receive the arbitration information that you had discussed. On the phone you said that it was not legally binding and that there was no fee involved. The email you sent did not reflect the same language. I don't understand.[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.

Mr. [redacted] is a previous customer of Champion who called us out to give him a quote on 1/07/17 to replacie his patio door. My factory representative went out on 1/10/17 and gave him a price that was agreed upon to replace the door with a custom ordered Champion  vinyl patio door. That door...

was measured and ordered on 1/16/17. It was ordered and batched at the factory and was manufactured for the customer. Since Mr. [redacted]'s contact of our office, we have spoke multiple times and continue to have open dialogue. As I have stated to him, there are multiple reasons that could be causing his existing door to have moisture build up on the inside. Humidity is definitely one. Whenever humidity is greater on one side than the other, it can cause moisture. Another cause could be that the door is leaking very cold air and the warm air blowing from the furnace on to that cold glass can be the culprit. If it was our door, our service technician would come out and check for leaks and if we could not find a leak we would do a condensation checklist to determine if the humidity was causing it and where it might be coming from. That being said, Mr. [redacted] called us out for a quote to replace his existing door. Our representative saw the issue, but along with Mr. [redacted] still do not know the cause of the moisture. We went through a very cold spell when the moisture was there, to a very warm spell when Mr. [redacted] tried to cancel when the moisture was gone.As far as the warranty that Mr. [redacted] has on his existing door, we were definitely unaware of that. The vast majority of warranties in this industry do not cover moisture on the panes that can be wiped off. His warranty may cover his seal failure where the moisture is in between the panes. I am not sure if it is covered, if the labor is covered, or anything else regarding the company that made the door. That was not discussed at time of quote, sale, measure, or order. Unfortunately in our industry it is our experience from our customers that unless the company makes and installs the product there are many loopholes that manufacturers get out of their warranty. That is why our model of making and installing is so successful. Because these are custom ordered products, we don't make anything until we have an order. Once it is past the 3 day right to cancel and the product is measured and ordered, the homeowner can cancel but must incur the costs that were stated on the original contract dated 1/10/17. At this point, we stand willing to install the product or push the installation back to a time that is more convenient for the homeowner to re-evaluate the door to determine if he wants to replace the door now or not. I have told him we are willing to hold onto this door until he has that time needed. Criss M[redacted]Division Manager

Mr. [redacted] and Champion entered into a contract on September 30th 2016 for WHITE windows inside and out. The customers windows would be delivered in a 4-6 week time frame. Mr [redacted] lives in a condo association. He needs his windows to be bronze on the exterior per association requirements. Champion...

offers a color bonding process that is done at our factory to accommodate such instances, but due to the up charge, Mr. [redacted] chose to paint them himself. The white windows that were custom ordered, came in and were installed on 11/14/16. Mr [redacted] signed the completion form where it stated that he was completed and satisfied. At the time of completion Mr. [redacted] paid his invoice in full.From my conversation with Mr. [redacted] today, Mr. [redacted] then painted the windows bronze. Champion is not a painting company. We refer all customers that choose to paint their windows to painting professionals due to the specific process needed when painting vinyl. Champion can not speak to the installation nor paint used on Mr. [redacted]s windows because Mr. [redacted] completed that installation.Mr. [redacted] did indeed reach out to his factory representative to ask about the paint after the paint he installed began to peel. The factory representative let Mr. [redacted] know that since we had nothing to do with the installation of his paint, that we did not warranty the paint. Mr. [redacted] according to our records has had two seperate conversations with his Factory representative where in those conversations the representative has again referred the customer to painting professionals. Champion has dealt with multiple customers that have associations that have painted their windows across the country with no issues. At no point was I contacted by Mr. [redacted]. I left Mr a message yesterday as soon as I saw this complaint for Mr. [redacted] to call me back. After no response I called Mr. [redacted] again today. In our conversation, I informed Mr. [redacted] that if there was anything regarding the installation or a factory issue with the product, we stand ready to rectify any of those issues under our lifetime warranty on the product and the installation. At this point, Mr. [redacted] is aware that we cannot warranty his installation of his materials, but if there are any other issues he is to call me directly. As of today, Mr. [redacted] is sending me installation pictures to make sure the windows were installed correctly. If they were not, the windows will be reinstalled and remade per contract if needed. Champion looks forward to getting this resolved immediately and continuing to service any and all customers moving forward. Sincerely,Criss M[redacted]Division Manager