Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/10/29) */ This is BFM's response to the claim for the customers replacement in our internal database on the customers above serial numberAll responses in the system from the dealer and factory are date and time stamped automatically in the system as soon as "submit" is entered Posted 2015-10-08:07:by garnett Replace the spaThe customer has two options )Blue Falls will replace the shell, jets, plumbing, cabinet and floorThere is no warranted reason to replace electronic equipment or coverThe old used equipment will be transferred from the original spa and installed in the new spaWarranty will pay up to hrs for the parts swapWarranty on new spa with original equipment will be duration of existing 2) Blue Falls is offering factory installed equipment at a low charge to only recuperate our costsThe cost to customer for new factory installed equipment will be $Warranty on new equipment will be the duration of existing warranty or one year parts, which ever is longerIf the customer wants a new cover, it will be at an additional cost Any additional upgrades are extra to above cost It sounds like the dealer only gave the second option which is unfortunate but the first option still stands from BFM if the customer would like the the new spa at no charge All consumers that have been offered to have a replacement product are responsible to pay for the swap of the product or they can bring the defective product back to the dealer in good condition This is a quote from the [redacted] warranty: Reasonable costs for the removal of the defective spa, and delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa ownerFreight will be paid to the nearest [redacted] spas(r) distribution center I would suggest that the consumer contact the local dealer and inquire about the first option listed above so that they can get a replacement product on order Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 8, 2015/10/30) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) The dealer has advised us that the cost of repairing the tub will be significantly more expensive than replacing the tubThe repair work will take several hours to completeWe will not pay for additional labour beyond the two hours offered by BFM The second option requires us to pay $for a replacement, which is unreasonable given that our current tub is a year oldAre you confirming that the technology has improved so much and is significantly more expensive, that you will be losing money if you provided us with a tub at no charge? Making your customer pay for the lack of quality control at your factory is unacceptable, especially when the tub is new The warranty does NOT state that the consumer must pay for new parts in a replacement spa Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 22, 2015/11/12) */ Our understanding is that you wanted a replacement spa at no cost to youFactory option is the best option for your request so we suggest moving forward with that optionThere is no expectation for the consumer to pay money for equipment unless they would like brand new electronic equipment as specified in option For option there are no upgrade costs that have increased the pricing and all electronic equipment pricing is based off of dealer cost which is lower than retail pricingWe will not be posting pricing of items in a claim We are not admitting that there is more damage to the product that you have by offering the new spaIt is not feasible or cost effective to the manufacturer to pay the dealer service department to tear apart and rebuild the cabinet structure in your backyard so it was our call to replace the spa with the options that are listed above Final Consumer Response / [redacted] (4200, 24, 2015/11/19) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) My questions have still not been answeredI am requesting a [redacted] replacement tub, as mine is structurally defectiveAlso, please be advised that we have documentation available that shows the frame was cracked on the day it was deliveredAlso, we have had an independent hot tub repair person verify the structural damageIt is his professional assessment that unless we brace the tub, it will eventually weaken to the point where the acrylic shell will crackTherefore, THIS TUB IS UNUSABLE in its current stateWe will not pay for repairs nor will we pay for a replacement tub, as it was defective from day one
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/10/29) */
This is BFM's response to the claim for the customers replacement in our internal database on the customers above serial number. All responses in the system from the dealer and factory are date and time stamped automatically in the system...
as soon as "submit" is entered.
Posted 2015-10-22 08:07:47 by garnett
Replace the spa. The customer has two options.
1 )Blue Falls will replace the shell, jets, plumbing, cabinet and floor. There is no warranted reason to replace electronic equipment or cover. The old used equipment will be transferred from the original spa and installed in the new spa. Warranty will pay up to 2 hrs for the parts swap. Warranty on new spa with original equipment will be duration of existing.
2) Blue Falls is offering factory installed equipment at a low charge to only recuperate our costs. The cost to customer for new factory installed equipment will be $2056.77. Warranty on new equipment will be the duration of existing warranty or one year parts, which ever is longer. If the customer wants a new cover, it will be at an additional cost.
Any additional upgrades are extra to above cost.
It sounds like the dealer only gave the second option which is unfortunate but the first option still stands from BFM if the customer would like the the new spa at no charge.
All consumers that have been offered to have a replacement product are responsible to pay for the swap of the product or they can bring the defective product back to the dealer in good condition.
This is a quote from the [redacted] warranty:
Reasonable costs for the removal of the defective spa, and
delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa owner. Freight will be paid to the
nearest [redacted] spas(r) distribution center.
I would suggest that the consumer contact the local dealer and inquire about the first option listed above so that they can get a replacement product on order.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 8, 2015/10/30) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The dealer has advised us that the cost of repairing the tub will be significantly more expensive than replacing the tub. The repair work will take several hours to complete. We will not pay for additional labour beyond the two hours offered by BFM.
The second option requires us to pay $2000 for a replacement, which is unreasonable given that our current tub is a year old. Are you confirming that the technology has improved so much and is significantly more expensive, that you will be losing money if you provided us with a tub at no charge? Making your customer pay for the lack of quality control at your factory is unacceptable, especially when the tub is new.
The warranty does NOT state that the consumer must pay for new parts in a replacement spa.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 22, 2015/11/12) */
Our understanding is that you wanted a replacement spa at no cost to you. Factory option 1 is the best option for your request so we suggest moving forward with that option. There is no expectation for the consumer to pay money for equipment unless they would like brand new electronic equipment as specified in option 2. For option 2 there are no upgrade costs that have increased the pricing and all electronic equipment pricing is based off of dealer cost which is lower than retail pricing. We will not be posting pricing of items in a claim.
We are not admitting that there is more damage to the product that you have by offering the new spa. It is not feasible or cost effective to the manufacturer to pay the dealer service department to tear apart and rebuild the cabinet structure in your backyard so it was our call to replace the spa with the options that are listed above.
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 24, 2015/11/19) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
My questions have still not been answered. I am requesting a [redacted] replacement tub, as mine is structurally defective. Also, please be advised that we have documentation available that shows the frame was cracked on the day it was delivered. Also, we have had an independent hot tub repair person verify the structural damage. It is his professional assessment that unless we brace the tub, it will eventually weaken to the point where the acrylic shell will crack. Therefore, THIS TUB IS UNUSABLE in its current state. We will not pay for repairs nor will we pay for a replacement tub, as it was defective from day one.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 11, 2014/08/15) */
The reason that the pillows are excluded from the [redacted] warranty is because we can not control what a consumer does with their water chemistry even if we try and steer them in the right direction. If consumer over oxidizes, over...
sanitizes, or does not adjust their pH regularly in their spa, it will damage the pillows very rapidly and this is called physical damage in which no manufacturer in any industry will cover for a consumer.
I went through your sales history at the store and in the last 8 months you have bought total 6 kgs of refresh, this is the oxidizer for the spa water. This amount of refresh is considered excessive for the length of time that you have had the spa. How much refresh are you using per week? You have also purchased 3kg's of bromine as well and again this is considered excessive for use. What is the bromine reading in the spa regularly? The standard starter kit of chemicals is usually at least a 6 month supply and you had started purchasing extra chemicals within a month of ownership of your hot tub. This concerns us that you might be inadvertently causing premature chemical damage to your spa.
[redacted] does use the best products that we can find that will work with in the environment that any of our parts have to be in and if a pillow is doing what you are showing in the pictures there is chemical/physical damage occurring. [redacted] can have products come from any where in the world to meet the demands of the environment that they are submersed in or and all of them do have to meet strict product guide lines. [redacted] has been using this EVA type of pillow for the last 5+ years and we have had so little problem with these pillows that there is no reason for the manufacture to change the warranty on the product to cover them for consumers. The EVA product is the same product that is used to make [redacted] shoes and if you purchase a pair of [redacted] their manufacturer warranty's the shoes for 45 days, if they get damaged outside of that warranty you have to purchase a new pair so, I am not sure why [redacted] should be expected to warranty them for the full 5 years to our customers.
I have authorized the discount to you for the pillows due to the fact that your spa is almost a year old and under normal circumstances these pillows should have lasted for a longer amount of time.
We also sent a copy of this e-mail to consumer and he has accepted the discount we offered on pillows [redacted]
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/03/09) */
The original offer of 180.00 was given on March 7, 2016, this was for the 3 hours of repair time to fix the spa under standard warranty practices. There was diagnosis time that is not normally covered. The warranty manager at Blue Falls...
went to the ownership and requested that full labour coverage for both diagnosis and repair be paid to the customer. In our written warranty labour coverage excludes travel or mileage for a tech to travel to a customers home to diagnose or repair product.
On the morning of March 8th, It was agreed to pay this person 459.92 which covered the labor charges. The other 40.00 dollars plus tax for travel charges are not covered under warranty. The warranty manager proceeded to call the customer and advise this is what we agreed to do for the customer and was very appreciative and thanked the warranty manager for going to bat for them.
The accounting department is making up payment for the customer and sending to him to cover his costs as agreed above.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (2000, 8, 2016/03/11) */
(The consumer indicated he/she ACCEPTED the response from the business.)
This company really came through with a strong honouring of their warranty.
I would like to thank them for their efforts.
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2015/10/29) */ This is BFM's response to the claim for the customers replacement in our internal database on the customers above serial numberAll responses in the system from the dealer and factory are date and time stamped automatically in the system as soon as "submit" is entered Posted 2015-10-08:07:by garnett Replace the spaThe customer has two options )Blue Falls will replace the shell, jets, plumbing, cabinet and floorThere is no warranted reason to replace electronic equipment or coverThe old used equipment will be transferred from the original spa and installed in the new spaWarranty will pay up to hrs for the parts swapWarranty on new spa with original equipment will be duration of existing 2) Blue Falls is offering factory installed equipment at a low charge to only recuperate our costsThe cost to customer for new factory installed equipment will be $Warranty on new equipment will be the duration of existing warranty or one year parts, which ever is longerIf the customer wants a new cover, it will be at an additional cost Any additional upgrades are extra to above cost It sounds like the dealer only gave the second option which is unfortunate but the first option still stands from BFM if the customer would like the the new spa at no charge All consumers that have been offered to have a replacement product are responsible to pay for the swap of the product or they can bring the defective product back to the dealer in good condition This is a quote from the [redacted] warranty: Reasonable costs for the removal of the defective spa, and delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa ownerFreight will be paid to the nearest [redacted] spas(r) distribution center I would suggest that the consumer contact the local dealer and inquire about the first option listed above so that they can get a replacement product on order Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 8, 2015/10/30) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) The dealer has advised us that the cost of repairing the tub will be significantly more expensive than replacing the tubThe repair work will take several hours to completeWe will not pay for additional labour beyond the two hours offered by BFM The second option requires us to pay $for a replacement, which is unreasonable given that our current tub is a year oldAre you confirming that the technology has improved so much and is significantly more expensive, that you will be losing money if you provided us with a tub at no charge? Making your customer pay for the lack of quality control at your factory is unacceptable, especially when the tub is new The warranty does NOT state that the consumer must pay for new parts in a replacement spa Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 22, 2015/11/12) */ Our understanding is that you wanted a replacement spa at no cost to youFactory option is the best option for your request so we suggest moving forward with that optionThere is no expectation for the consumer to pay money for equipment unless they would like brand new electronic equipment as specified in option For option there are no upgrade costs that have increased the pricing and all electronic equipment pricing is based off of dealer cost which is lower than retail pricingWe will not be posting pricing of items in a claim We are not admitting that there is more damage to the product that you have by offering the new spaIt is not feasible or cost effective to the manufacturer to pay the dealer service department to tear apart and rebuild the cabinet structure in your backyard so it was our call to replace the spa with the options that are listed above Final Consumer Response / [redacted] (4200, 24, 2015/11/19) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) My questions have still not been answeredI am requesting a [redacted] replacement tub, as mine is structurally defectiveAlso, please be advised that we have documentation available that shows the frame was cracked on the day it was deliveredAlso, we have had an independent hot tub repair person verify the structural damageIt is his professional assessment that unless we brace the tub, it will eventually weaken to the point where the acrylic shell will crackTherefore, THIS TUB IS UNUSABLE in its current stateWe will not pay for repairs nor will we pay for a replacement tub, as it was defective from day one
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/10/29) */
This is BFM's response to the claim for the customers replacement in our internal database on the customers above serial number. All responses in the system from the dealer and factory are date and time stamped automatically in the system...
as soon as "submit" is entered.
Posted 2015-10-22 08:07:47 by garnett
Replace the spa. The customer has two options.
1 )Blue Falls will replace the shell, jets, plumbing, cabinet and floor. There is no warranted reason to replace electronic equipment or cover. The old used equipment will be transferred from the original spa and installed in the new spa. Warranty will pay up to 2 hrs for the parts swap. Warranty on new spa with original equipment will be duration of existing.
2) Blue Falls is offering factory installed equipment at a low charge to only recuperate our costs. The cost to customer for new factory installed equipment will be $2056.77. Warranty on new equipment will be the duration of existing warranty or one year parts, which ever is longer. If the customer wants a new cover, it will be at an additional cost.
Any additional upgrades are extra to above cost.
It sounds like the dealer only gave the second option which is unfortunate but the first option still stands from BFM if the customer would like the the new spa at no charge.
All consumers that have been offered to have a replacement product are responsible to pay for the swap of the product or they can bring the defective product back to the dealer in good condition.
This is a quote from the [redacted] warranty:
Reasonable costs for the removal of the defective spa, and
delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa owner. Freight will be paid to the
nearest [redacted] spas(r) distribution center.
I would suggest that the consumer contact the local dealer and inquire about the first option listed above so that they can get a replacement product on order.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 8, 2015/10/30) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The dealer has advised us that the cost of repairing the tub will be significantly more expensive than replacing the tub. The repair work will take several hours to complete. We will not pay for additional labour beyond the two hours offered by BFM.
The second option requires us to pay $2000 for a replacement, which is unreasonable given that our current tub is a year old. Are you confirming that the technology has improved so much and is significantly more expensive, that you will be losing money if you provided us with a tub at no charge? Making your customer pay for the lack of quality control at your factory is unacceptable, especially when the tub is new.
The warranty does NOT state that the consumer must pay for new parts in a replacement spa.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 22, 2015/11/12) */
Our understanding is that you wanted a replacement spa at no cost to you. Factory option 1 is the best option for your request so we suggest moving forward with that option. There is no expectation for the consumer to pay money for equipment unless they would like brand new electronic equipment as specified in option 2. For option 2 there are no upgrade costs that have increased the pricing and all electronic equipment pricing is based off of dealer cost which is lower than retail pricing. We will not be posting pricing of items in a claim.
We are not admitting that there is more damage to the product that you have by offering the new spa. It is not feasible or cost effective to the manufacturer to pay the dealer service department to tear apart and rebuild the cabinet structure in your backyard so it was our call to replace the spa with the options that are listed above.
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 24, 2015/11/19) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
My questions have still not been answered. I am requesting a [redacted] replacement tub, as mine is structurally defective. Also, please be advised that we have documentation available that shows the frame was cracked on the day it was delivered. Also, we have had an independent hot tub repair person verify the structural damage. It is his professional assessment that unless we brace the tub, it will eventually weaken to the point where the acrylic shell will crack. Therefore, THIS TUB IS UNUSABLE in its current state. We will not pay for repairs nor will we pay for a replacement tub, as it was defective from day one.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 11, 2014/08/15) */
The reason that the pillows are excluded from the [redacted] warranty is because we can not control what a consumer does with their water chemistry even if we try and steer them in the right direction. If consumer over oxidizes, over...
sanitizes, or does not adjust their pH regularly in their spa, it will damage the pillows very rapidly and this is called physical damage in which no manufacturer in any industry will cover for a consumer.
I went through your sales history at the store and in the last 8 months you have bought total 6 kgs of refresh, this is the oxidizer for the spa water. This amount of refresh is considered excessive for the length of time that you have had the spa. How much refresh are you using per week? You have also purchased 3kg's of bromine as well and again this is considered excessive for use. What is the bromine reading in the spa regularly? The standard starter kit of chemicals is usually at least a 6 month supply and you had started purchasing extra chemicals within a month of ownership of your hot tub. This concerns us that you might be inadvertently causing premature chemical damage to your spa.
[redacted] does use the best products that we can find that will work with in the environment that any of our parts have to be in and if a pillow is doing what you are showing in the pictures there is chemical/physical damage occurring. [redacted] can have products come from any where in the world to meet the demands of the environment that they are submersed in or and all of them do have to meet strict product guide lines. [redacted] has been using this EVA type of pillow for the last 5+ years and we have had so little problem with these pillows that there is no reason for the manufacture to change the warranty on the product to cover them for consumers. The EVA product is the same product that is used to make [redacted] shoes and if you purchase a pair of [redacted] their manufacturer warranty's the shoes for 45 days, if they get damaged outside of that warranty you have to purchase a new pair so, I am not sure why [redacted] should be expected to warranty them for the full 5 years to our customers.
I have authorized the discount to you for the pillows due to the fact that your spa is almost a year old and under normal circumstances these pillows should have lasted for a longer amount of time.
We also sent a copy of this e-mail to consumer and he has accepted the discount we offered on pillows [redacted]
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/03/09) */
The original offer of 180.00 was given on March 7, 2016, this was for the 3 hours of repair time to fix the spa under standard warranty practices. There was diagnosis time that is not normally covered. The warranty manager at Blue Falls...
went to the ownership and requested that full labour coverage for both diagnosis and repair be paid to the customer. In our written warranty labour coverage excludes travel or mileage for a tech to travel to a customers home to diagnose or repair product.
On the morning of March 8th, It was agreed to pay this person 459.92 which covered the labor charges. The other 40.00 dollars plus tax for travel charges are not covered under warranty. The warranty manager proceeded to call the customer and advise this is what we agreed to do for the customer and was very appreciative and thanked the warranty manager for going to bat for them.
The accounting department is making up payment for the customer and sending to him to cover his costs as agreed above.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (2000, 8, 2016/03/11) */
(The consumer indicated he/she ACCEPTED the response from the business.)
This company really came through with a strong honouring of their warranty.
I would like to thank them for their efforts.