Artistic Ornamental Iron, LLC

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/08/29) */
Artistic Ornamental Iron was called by *** (***'s significant other) to get an estimate for a simple railing on May 11th, I went and measured the small exterior stairs and asked *** what style of railing he would like
*** pointed across the street and said "Simple like thatNothing fancy, I just really need some assistance getting up the stairs before winter gets here"*** then informed me that he would be having the exterior of his home painted in the next few weeks and said he wanted the railing to end just before the house and NOT connect to the brick or siding of the homeI left and later that evening called to quote *** a price of $and he asked if he could get the railing before fallI told him our lead time was 8-weeks as we were at the peak of our spring seasonDuring that phone conversation *** said he wanted to proceed with ordering the railing to ensure he would get it before fallRoughly five weeks later I called to tell *** his railing was finished and ready to installHe said his painter was in the process of repainting the exterior of his home and he wanted us to wait one week to installHe then called me almost two weeks later and said that we could install the railing as the painter was finished, he was in no way surprised that his railing was built as *** claimsOn July 23rd, our installers went to ***'s home and installed the railingAfter completing the installation Keith spoke with *** to tell him the railing could not be touched for hours to allow the Rock-Ite to cure and fully secure the railing into the concrete stairs*** thanked Keith and paid him in full the amount of $in the form of a check*** then called me to compliment us on how much he liked the railing and said "it is perfect and beautiful"The next day *** called to say the railing was wiggling and she wanted the design changedI told her that we would gladly come and reset the railing but that it would have to be UNTOUCHED for hrs to completely cureI explained that we normally charge a fee for that issue because the only way it was not solid is if someone shook the railing before the full hoursShe said she wanted it removed and that she didn't like the last five inches of the cap rail not being attached to the homeI informed her that *** ordered the top of the railing straight and specifically requested it not attached to the homeI then spent the next days dealing with *** over the phone attempting to create a reasonable solution to alter the top of the railing, none to her likingI explained that once the railing is hand fabricated and powder coated we cannot just "add a tail" as she saysA simple change of that matter would require new fabrication and if she wanted to pay for a different railing we would sure build her one exactly as she wanted itShe then started yelling at me that she never ordered the railing and she demanded me to replace it with a different oneI spoke with *** roughly times on the phone over the next week, as she called me daily*** does not know anything about wrought iron or handrails and she has repeatedly told me the railing has been fabricated wrongI have explained to her that ***'s railing has been fabricated within all guidelines of Minnesota law and it is completely correctShe doesn't speak English as a first language and it is difficult to have any conversation with her and understand what she is sayingI then emailed her with her options of how to please her and she didn't respondI offered to bolt an extended cap rail on top of the railing or to build a new one that she would have to pay forThe last phone conversation I had with her she was going to draw a picture of how she wanted the railing changed and I told her I would look at her idea and see if it would be possible to change without complete re-fabricationShe didn't send a drawing so after waiting for three days I sent the installers back to correct the wiggle (caused by someone shaking the railing before hours had elapsed from original installation)*** called me later that day to yell at me on the phone about how she did not get what she ordered and that someone had fixed the wiggleI told her that she didn't order anything from our company and I apologized for the miscommunication between her and ***, as *** is the only person that Artistic Ornamental Iron has ever had any custom ordered product from at their addressShe screamed at me on the phone for several minutes and I could not understand anything she was yellingI then told her I was finished talking to her and that she need to stop harassing me by calling me every day to demand the railing be made new for her liking*** usually calls my cell phone after 9pm demanding that my company do what she wants and I have had enough of her verbal abuse when there was never an order of any kind from ***She then sent me an email on August 7, demanding that we bring her a new railing by August 21, or she would take legal actionAt that point, after several emails and numerous phone conversations of attempting to please this woman I realized that she was very unlikely to stop yelling at me unless we built her a new railingMost of our products are very expensive and I did not feel obligated to give *** two very cheap railings for the price of one when she never ordered anything in the first place*** was very happy with the railing when I spoke with him after installationI have not had any conversation with *** after he thanked me for his railing and being that *** is my customer, I think this complaint is completely unfair and unethical of *** to even considerI have attempted to call their home and speak with *** about this issue but *** will not let me talk to him*** has been the most difficult "customer" that has never ordered any product from Artistic Ornamental IronShe will not accept a refund of $or any kind of added extension, as she claims that is not good enough and it will still look like a "fix" to a mistake that her husband requestedIf *** would have informed his wife of the order he placed this would not be a current issueI do not see any way to satisfy *** besides hand fabricating a new handrail for free, which I in no way feel obligated to do for this unpleasant woman
Please call me if you have any difficulty understanding any of this mess
Thank you,
Chelsey ***
Artistic Ornamental Iron
***
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/09/10) */
Please see our response in italic bold
Sincerely,
*** and ***
On August 29, 2015, the business provided the following information:
Artistic Ornamental Iron was called by *** (***'s significant other) to get an estimate for a simple railing on May 11th, Per ***: He called Artistic Ornamental Iron earlierAsked to come for estimate on Sat., when ***, my wife is at home, so we both could be presentMay 11, was Satand *** and I both talked to Mrs***I went and measured the small exterior stairs and asked *** what style of railing he would like*** pointed across the street and said "Simple like thatNothing fancy, I just really need some assistance getting up the stairs before winter gets here"*** then informed me that he would be having the exterior of his home painted in the next few weeks and said he wanted the railing to end just before the house and NOT connect to the brick or siding of the homeI left and later that evening called to quote *** a price of $and he asked if he could get the railing before fallI told him our lead time was 8-weeks as we were at the peak of our spring seasonDuring that phone conversation *** said he wanted to proceed with ordering the railing to ensure he would get it before fallPer D & N: Price of $was given to us on the spotAt the same time we've got information about manufacturing scheduleBefore Mrs*** left *** told her that we'll call her later, but we were busy and never did call herShe did not call us that evening or any other time in MayPer ***: he did not call her to place the order neither next day nor laterRoughly five weeks later I called to tell *** his railing was finished and ready to installMrsRcalled twice between May and mid-July inquiring if we are ready for handrailPer ***: She never said anything about the order or that is was ready, so we thought that she called, trying to get the orderHe said his painter was in the process of repainting the exterior of his home and he wanted us to wait one week to installPer ***: he never asked about delay with installation of handrail because he did not know that it was manufactured without our authorizationWe continued checking handrail market and got another quote of $in JulyHe then called me almost two weeks later and said that we could install the railing as the painter was finished, he was in no way surprised that his railing was built as *** claimsPer N: We did not have painters working on our housePer ***: he called MrsRand left a vm with information that we were ready for the rail (meaning that we were ready to choose the vendor and order the rail) and that we received a better quote, so he asked MrsRto call him to discussWe wanted to offer her to match the price, since she gave us the estimate firstMrsRnever called back, instead, in a few days she sent installers with the rail which was manufactured without our order or acknowledgement or authorizationOn July 23rd, our installers went to ***'s home and installed the railingPer ***: We did not receive any upfront notice about installationTwo guys arrived and without checking with the owners started drilling holes in our front porch*** happened to be home, heard the noise and came out to see what was going onHe was surprisedHowever the handrail, which was leaning against a bush on our front yard seemed fine and it was already here, so he decided to allow to continue installation and paid the asking price of $Per N and D: We understand now that it was a mistakeEven though *** decided to buy the rail we should have paid only after thorough inspection, which we did laterAfter completing the installation Keith spoke with *** to tell him the railing could not be touched for hours to allow the Rock-Ite to cure and fully secure the railing into the concrete stairsPer ***: *** asked when the rails will be ready for useThe younger of two installers said - in an hour or two*** did not think that it was right and told *** that we had to allow hours to harden*** thanked Keith and paid him in full the amount of $in the form of a check*** then called me to compliment us on how much he liked the railing and said "it is perfect and beautiful"Per ***: he did not call MrsRto complement the handrailHe called her to let her know that after hours the handrail was shakyThe next day *** called to say the railing was wiggling and she wanted the design changedPer N: When *** and I looked at the handrail closer, we discovered a mistake in design - handrail should has been made as a free standing with finishing element on the side facing the house, but it was not and therefore looked unfinishedI called MrsRand asked to speak to the managerMrsRsaid that I should talk to her and told me that she already talked to *** and will send installers next week to fix shaky handrailI explained that I am calling about mistake in designMrsRfirst reaction was "Dollars - no way!, though I only asked to fix the mistake, not to give us money backThen she asked if I could send her pictures of our handrail and our neighbor's handrail which *** pointed to as an example during her first visitI sent these pics to her on Sat., July I also sent her pictures of free standing handrails from her company's website, showing finishing elements on all of themI told her that we would gladly come and reset the railing but that it would have to be UNTOUCHED for hrs to completely cureI explained that we normally charge a fee for that issue because the only way it was not solid is if someone shook the railing before the full hoursPer N.: I did not discuss with MrsRfirming the handrail because she already told *** that installers will come back and fix itShe never mentioned to *** or me anything about extra payment for this serviceI did not hear from her for a few days and decided to call her to find out if she received my email with the pictures that she requestedIt was the first time when she started yelling at me and accusing *** and I with various things, including touching handrail too early, which made it "wiggle"When I explained that we waited till next day until we checked and discovered that it was shaky, she said that then it was our mailman who touched it too earlyShe said she wanted it removed and that she didn't like the last five inches of the cap rail not being attached to the homeI informed her that *** ordered the top of the railing straight and specifically requested it not attached to the homePer N.: Not true - I did not asked to remove handrail at that timeI asked to fix the unfinished end of it, so it look properly on the front of the houseI reminded to her that *** called her with information about competitive quote and asked to call him to discuss, which she never didMrsRstarted yelling that we gave her vague instructionsI asked why she did not send us a sketch or detailed descriptionThe response was that if we wanted to see what our handrail look like we had to come to the shopI heard through her screaming some pieces of information, such as: she did not understand why we were looking for another quote; that we had to pay $for something; that if we want them to make a new rail we have to pay for it; the information and claims were piled up and did not make much sense to me at the timeAt this point I told her that we did not place the order with her to start withThen the Hell broke looseShe started yelling that *** and I don't have a good communication; that he placed the order; that they are in business for over years (I think, she said 26); that they are licensed in MN; that we cannot return custom made handrail (though at this time we did not ask to take it back)I tried to say something, but in vainI asked her: why are you yelling at me, but she continuedFinally I told her that I don't like to be yelled at and that it is not a good customer serviceThis comment made her completely mad and she continued even louder, now claiming that she provides a wonderful customer serviceI thought she confused us with somebody else and tried to calm her downShe stopped screaming when I mentioned that I looked them up on Revdex.com websiteThen I asked her about her company and learned that the business is from TXShe was proud that they had a good rating with Revdex.comAll of the sudden she asked if I would be satisfied if they add to the railing finishing elementI was happy to hear it - it was the reason of my call at the first placeI told her that yes, it is what we want, as long as this addition doesn't look like a patchMrsRsaid that Keith will come to us next week to install the addition and to firm the railI asked her to let us know what will be installed - send us a sketch or detailed description before it is madeShe promised to talk to Keith and come back to meMrsRdid not provide a sketch or detailed description
I then spent the next days dealing with *** over the phone attempting to create a reasonable solution to alter the top of the railing, none to her likingI explained that once the railing is hand fabricated and powder coated we cannot just "add a tail" as she saysPer N.: MrsRand I talked a few times and she told me that the solution she mentioned - straight piece bolted to the top railing - will be noticeableShe never offered any other solutions*** and I tried to come with different suggestions, but they all were rejected by MrsRA simple change of that matter would require new fabrication and if she wanted to pay for a different railing we would sure build her one exactly as she wanted itShe then started yelling at me that she never ordered the railing and she demanded me to replace it with a different onePer N.: Not true - I never asked about complete railing unit replacement, just about adding the finishing element that doesn't look like a patchI spoke with *** roughly times on the phone over the next week, as she called me daily*** does not know anything about wrought iron or handrails and she has repeatedly told me the railing has been fabricated wrongI have explained to her that ***'s railing has been fabricated within all guidelines of Minnesota law and it is completely correctShe doesn't speak English as a first language and it is difficult to have any conversation with her and understand what she is sayingPer N: I am aware that I speak with the accent and always will, but I am also aware that people understand me very well, including MrsR., which follows from her commentsShe never mentioned that she did not understand what I asked or saidI then emailed her with her options of how to please her and she didn't respondI offered to bolt an extended cap rail on top of the railing or to build a new one that she would have to pay forPer D and N: $is a lot of money for usMrsRmade the design mistakePrior to this she mistakenly started production without our authorization and therefore did not give us a chance to check what they were "fabricating"We do not think that we have to pay again*** told me that in his opinion the only way to fix the rail to make it look right is to replace the cap rail with a correctly designed oneWe sent to MrsRand Keith email with this suggestionThis option was rejectedShe called back and said that Keith will not do it (also mentioned something about railing will become shorter, but abruptly stopped this topic)The last phone conversation I had with her she was going to draw a picture of how she wanted the railing changed and I told her I would look at her idea and see if it would be possible to change without complete re-fabricationShe didn't send a drawing so after waiting for three days I sent the installers back to correct the wiggle (caused by someone shaking the railing before hours had elapsed from original installation)Per D and N: After all our suggestions were rejected and nothing was offered to us, we sent email to both, MrsR and Keith asking to fix the problem or to return the payment and take their product backWe also mentioned that shaky rail poses hazardThe email was sent on Fri., AugOn Mo., AugMrsRcalled me to inform that handrail is firmed and it was done on SunI asked why she did not give us a notice - we could be at homeShe was irritated by this question and said that installers were working in Edina (per her they have jobs there) and they just stopped byWe don't like the fact that both times MrsRsent her people to our property without giving us heads up and getting our confirmationIt happened twice during our dealing with MrsRand may be a subject of a separate complaint
Then I asked MrsRwhat they are going to do about the design problemShe started yelling again and eventually hung up*** called me later that day to yell at me on the phone about how she did not get what she ordered and that someone had fixed the wiggleI told her that she didn't order anything from our company and I apologized for the miscommunication between her and ***, as *** is the only person that Artistic Ornamental Iron has ever had any custom ordered product from at their addressShe screamed at me on the phone for several minutes and I could not understand anything she was yellingPerN: MrsRstarted going in circles about my miscommunication with ***, so I reminded to her again that we did not place an orderThis time she said that *** called her the next day after she gave us a quote, which would be Sun., May 12; asked her how long it would take to make handrail and instructed to start manufacturingPer ***: he did not call MrsRbetween her visit and phone call about competitive quote
Per N: I never yelled at her - I understand that by yelling at each other cannot solve problems but can only escalate themI then told her I was finished talking to her and that she need to stop harassing me by calling me every day to demand the railing be made new for her likingShe was very rude and hung up after finishing her monolog*** usually calls my cell phone after 9pm demanding that my company do what she wants and I have had enough of her verbal abuse - Per N: this is not true - I only asked MrsRto do her job - correct the mistake made by her while representing Artistic Ornamental Iron when there was never an order of any kind from ***She then sent me an email on August 7, demanding that we bring her a new railing by August 21, or she would take legal action Per *** and ***: The email was from *** and IWe did not mention anything about legal actionsHowever during our last conversation MrsRsaid that we threatened them and exclaimed: "What are you gonna do?! Take us to the court?" At that point, after several emails and numerous phone conversations of attempting to please this woman I realized that she was very unlikely to stop yelling at me unless we built her a new railingMost of our products are very expensive and I did not feel obligated to give *** two very cheap railings for the price of one when she never ordered anything in the first placePer N: MrsRis trying to turn table around and blame me with what she actually did - yelling at the customer
After *** and I discovered the defect caused by MrsR.'s poor attention to details, the only thing we asked was to fix her own mistake*** was very happy with the railing when I spoke with him after installationPer ***: I spoke to MrsR only once after installation when I noticed that railing is shakyWe have noticed the design error later the same day and *** called her about itI was present in the room and heard the conversationWe don't have problem with workmanshipThis is the design that needs to be fixedI have not had any conversation with *** after he thanked me for his railing and being that *** is my customer, I think this complaint is completely unfair and unethical of *** to even considerI have attempted to call their home and speak with *** about this issue but *** will not let me talk to himPer N: This is not the truthWe never received any phone calls from MrsRon our landline or voice mail from herShe has ***'s mobile number, but he did not receive calls from her eitherWe have the records to prove it*** has been the most difficult "customer" that has never ordered any product from Artistic Ornamental IronShe will not accept a refund of $or any kind of added extension, as she claims that is not good enough and it will still look like a "fix" to a mistake that her husband requested*** and ***: this is completely made upShe never offered any monetary solutions of the problemActually no solutions, except for a straight piece of railing bolted to the end of the rail that per MrsR.'s own statement would be noticeableIf *** would have informed his wife of the order he placed this would not be a current issueI do not see any way to satisfy *** besides hand fabricating a new handrail for free, which I in no way feel obligated to do for this unpleasant woman
Please call me if you have any difficulty understanding any of this mess
Summary by *** and ***:
Even with all mistakes made by MrsRwith the order we were willing to accept the item, which costs us more than similar item from another vendorUnfortunately MrsRmade more than one mistakeShe did not take into account specific details of our house which caused mistake of designWhen she visited us on May 11, she did not notice that we have a brick finish that goes up to 1/of the house wall height and which is protrudingIt calls for a free-standing rail, not rail that is placed directly to the house wallThe picture of the neighbor's rail that MrsRclaimed she used as a sample has this finishing pieceNow she doesn't want to admit it
We made only one, but critical mistake - paid for the product that we did not order, did not see its sketch or description and therefore did not have a chance to catch and correct the mistake of design prior to manufacturingThey just got lucky that they were paid
In her monologs MrsRrepeated a few times that they are "in business to make money"The mistake was made by her personally and she doesn't want to pay for her mistake
MrsRbecame angry when during one of her conversations with me (when she was yelling at me first time) I told her that it is not a good customer serviceMy comment made her genuinely madShe believed that she provided excellent customer service, about which she reminded to me during other conversations
Comment on "customer service" provided by Mrs*** to us in relation to this order:
Since she left our property after giving us a quote we never receive notification or acknowledgement of placing the order (neither verbally or in writing) and therefore did not allow us a chance to review a sketch or detailed description of the handrail
The receipt that was left when *** paid to the installers stated that the customer has to pay down payment with the order - we never did it or asked to do it
MrsRnever called us after *** left a vm stating that he would like to discuss an offer from a different vendor
MrsRsent to us installers without prior notice and without receiving confirmation from us
Installers came and started working on our property (drilling holes in the front porch!) without asking owner's permission to do it (did the same when came again to fix shaky railing)
Based on some of Mrs***'s comments she realized that she made a mistake of design while passing the order on to her husband for production (in one of conversation in the middle of negotiations re possible fix she said - oh, you have this protruding brick wall, that's why there is a gap between the top rail and the main wall of the houseI confirmed and that she did not notice it because she did not take a pic of OUR houseShe quickly said that she did take a picture, which means that she still overlooked this detail)
Mrs*** showed her temper when she didn't like facts or disagreed with them, which is not acceptable whether customer speaking with accent or not*** felt humiliated and discriminated after communications with her*** can confirm it, since every time she yelled at Nshe told *** and other people about it
N: She was yelling at me during our conversation and now trying to turn table around and blame meShe also blamed our mailman that he shook the handrail within hours since installation
Keith's phone number is listed on Artistic Ornamental Iron business cardWe tried to call him a few times and left messages, but he never called back and Mrs*** told *** that he doesn't talk to the customers - she does
Calling a customer "unpleasant woman" and blaming *** in MrsR.'s own actions - screaming and yelling on the phone - is not professional
MrsRinvented facts, e.g., that *** called her next day after her visit and placed the order; that she tried to call him and I did not allow her to talk to him; and others
We understand that Artistic Ornamental Irons either doesn't want or cannot fix our handrail design mistake caused by a number of "customer service" missteps, made by MrsRand listed aboveWe will have to either find another vendor, who can fix it, or get rid of the rail all together and order a new one from somebody elseWe would agree to accept $refund from Artistic Ornamental Iron and have them keep $for materials, so we could use the funds to correct this company's mistake
Respectfully submitted,
*** and ***
PS Copies of email correspondence with Mrs***, pictures of neighbor's and our handrail and phone calls logs are also available, if needed
***copied and pasted from email
Final Business Response /* (4000, 15, 2015/10/02) */
***,
I have attached a photo of the railing that *** ordered and paid for upon deliveryAs I explained on the phone *** is the only customer that I was ever in contract with at the *** residenceHe issued a check in full when the our two installers had successfully completed the railing installation*** called me an hour after the installers left to tell me that the railing looked perfect and my guys were very niceHe also said he wanted to compliment our product quality and said that he loved the railingI thanked him for his business and thought everything was superThe next day *** started calling my phone repeatedly demanding we come and remove the railing with a new one
***'s railing is fully functional and built exactly like he asked it to be built*** does not like that the lower end has a lamb's tongue and the top does not*** specifically picked the lamb's tongue at the bottom and a straight post at the top to accommodate for any painting of his house in the future
We do offer a quote for any potential customer in our service area no matter the size of the job*** has ordered and received a superior quality handrail for a fair price*** is out of line by requesting a refund of the total purchase price over her personal taste when she didn't take the time to be present during the estimate/design appointment that *** initiated with meAlso, there is no state law that requires my company must verify all home residence approve of any custom ordered productArtistic Ornamental Iron is at no fault with the product provided for ***
Thank you,