R & M Automotive, Inc.

Review: In October of 2010 my parents purchased a car fax certified 2003 [redacted] Rav from [redacted] in [redacted] VA. The car ran well until late summer of 2012, this is when I began noticing issues revolving around my vehicle. My car would jerk and stop unexpectedly when I would be driving. I took my vehicle to R & M Automotive to have it looked at for the problem. They stated that the issue had to do with my transmission and that is what we proceeded to fix. They replaced the transmission on Sept. 26 2012 at a cost of $5,156.60. About 2 months after the transmission was fixed I began to experience problems with my car not accelerating properly and on two different occasions I had to be towed by R & M because my car was not working.

On one occasion they towed my car from [redacted] College where I attend school at a cost of $65.00 along with replacing the starter motor for $175.40 along with the assembly of $87.50 this was on Oct. 30th 2012. On Feb. 15th 2013 I again took my car to R &M to diagnose a problem where the car was hesitating and my engine light was on they found that O2 sensors were not switching and they tried to remove O2 sensors but they could not due to the fact the sensors were siezed to cat converters this was at a cost of $140.00. Throughout the summer and Fall I had increasing problems with the car along the same issues and there are other undocumented times that my car was taken to R & M and they said nothing was wrong with it. On November 18th 2013 I took my car to R & M due to severe issues, my car was stopping in the middle of the road and shutting off on me and my car would jerk the entire time I drove it. When R &M diagnosed it they said that the senors/catalytic converters had to be replaced but that they could not do that line of work so they recommended [redacted] in Waynesboro Va. [redacted] replaced all the sensors and the catalytic converter at a cost of $1,225.46. A day later I still had the same problems with my car that I was having initially. I took it back to [redacted] and [redacted] drove my car and felt that the work he had done there was not all that was wrong with my car. My engine light continued to come on along with the alternator light and my car continued to jerk. [redacted] thought it had something to do with the transmission and that day I called R & M and we took my car down there for them to look at. They drove my car and found absolutely nothing wrong with it. They stated they drove it up and down the mountain and could not find anything wrong with it. They hooked it up to diagnostics and said they had not found anything wrong with it in that sense either. As soon as I drove it I had the exact same problems I was having with it. My car would jerk while driving along with when I was stopped at a stop light and went to accelerate my car would not go above 20 and it seemed like it was having a hard time getting into gear. A few times while driving I would go to accelerate and my car would slowly start to lose power and on numerous occasions my car would completely shut down on me while I was driving my steering wheel would lock up on me and my car would lose all power. It's a scary feeling not feeling safe. My parents and I finally got so fed up with R & M and "never finding anything wrong with it attitude" that we took my car to the [redacted] dealer in [redacted] Va on Dec. 19th 2013 to see if they found anything wrong with my car. I had been to R & M so many times with the same issue and them never finding anything wrong with it made me feel like I was crying wolf or didn't know what I was talking about. I believe they felt that I and my parents are stupid and they were trying to get one up on us. R & M never really looked in to the problem deep enough they would hook it up to diagnostics and take a quick test drive and come to the same conclusion that nothing was to be found. They had even joked with me about hopefully not seeing me before the new year. On Dec. 20th [redacted] called and said they were unsure of the problem at that time. One of the service advisers suggested they keep the car over the weekend so they could drive it and try to pin point the problem. On Dec. 23rd they contacted me to discuss what they had found with my car. I was told that the ECM or computer module to my car had to be replaced. This was at a price at $1,128.57. After receiving this news I was told that my car was driven by the [redacted] people after the computer module was replaced, my car was still having the exact same problems so they told me that the transmission yet again had to be replaced on my car. There was a written note from [redacted] that my parents and I had got stating: "There was a technical service bulletin on their car that came out on June 22, 2010 that states if the the customer experiences a harsh shift you need to start by replacing the engine control module if the problem is still there afterwards then the engine control module that failed damaged the transmission and then the next step is to replace the transmission. In this case the transmission was replaced first and the bad engine control module damaged the new transmission." On Dec. 23rd the Rav 4 was picked up and R & M was contacted and on Dec. 30th I took my car to R & M with the written letter I had received along with a copy of the service bulletin. The reason I had to take my car back to R & M was because I had a 3 year warranty on the transmission they fixed a year ago. If we did not have the warranty with R & M then we would never be going back there for car trouble. When we took the car down today (Dec. 30th) they are still denying that they had done anything wrong with the replacement of the transmission and or computer module. They even stated that they did not have the proper equipment or diagnostic tool to discern what the real problem is. If R & M was able to diagnose the problem with the computer to begin with we may not have needed a transmission put in along with another computer module and we would have avoided the expenses of towing and the additional expenses that were added on to that.Desired Settlement: I want money back from the transmission and the second computer module that had to be installed plus the towing expenses and times where my parents had to take off work to take me to school due to my car always being in the shop. My parents had to take days off from work to get me to school since R & M couldn't fix the problem. If it turns out that the computer module was the faulty piece to this whole scenario then we would not have needed a transmission or the second computer module that was replaced by Toyota. So we are asking money back for the computer module and the transmission.

I would also like to have a car that works properly and safely.

Business

Response:

RE: Complaint ID # [redacted]

The 2003 [redacted] RAV was brought into R&M on September 2012. Customer stated that there were no high gears. We gave customer an estimate for repairs and they stated to go ahead with the repair. At that same time, they got us to replace water pump and thermostat.

We installed [redacted] transmission along with OEM ECM from [redacted] which [redacted] supplied with transmission. Customer picked up the vehicle September 26, 2012. In October 2012, customer called and stated that the [redacted] would not start. We towed the vehicle from [redacted] College to our shop (R&M). Our technician diagnosed and found that the starter was defective, and we replaced it. Customer again came and picked up the vehicle.

In February 2013, the customer brought the [redacted] back in to the shop and stated that the car was jerking and the check engine light was on. Our technician scanned the computer and found codes that were catalytic converter and oxygen sensor codes. The catalytic converter was below threshold and that repairs were needed were to replace catalytic converter and oxygen sensors; which the technical bulletin recommended replacing. At that time the customer declined the repairs, stating that her boyfriend would do the repairs.

The customer then returned to the shop a couple of times during the summer of 2013 for the check engine light being on and the vehicle bucking and jerking intermittently. The technician diagnosed and found the same codes that it had in February 2013, when the customer declined the repairs, and stated that her boyfriend would be repairing the vehicle. The recommended repairs of the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors still had not been done to date on the vehicle. At that time, we could not do the work, so the customer took the vehicle to [redacted], located here in Waynesboro to have the catalytic converter replaced, as well as the oxygen sensors.

The customer told us that the car was still jerking a day or two later. She talked to the guy at [redacted] and he stated that there were other problems. He suggested that is may be the transmission.

She brought the car back to us. Our technician checked the car and found no problem with the transmission. I even had her father go for a ride with us and found no problem. It never acted up when her father went for a ride with us.

She then took it to the [redacted] Dealership and stated that she was having a problem with the transmission, that it was jerking. [redacted] had a technical service bulletin that recommended to replace the computer. [redacted] told her that the computer had not been replaced so they put a new one in it.

The computer had been replaced at the time the transmission was installed with a [redacted] OEM computer, which was articulated earlier in this letter.

The transmission would not make the car cut off going down the interstate or make the lights come on in the dash, such as the alternator light, etc.

On December 30, 2013, the customer brought the car back to the shop. Again, our technician found no transmission codes. We did find the crank sensor was oil soaked, and we replaced that sensor at no charge to customer. We drove the car for a couple of days and the check engine light came on.

On January 3, 2014, we called customer to come in. We showed her and her father what code was in the vehicle, which was code P0430. The customer took a photo of the code with her phone and stated that she was going to take it back to [redacted]. We then talked about the computer. She had called [redacted] and they told her that the computer was replaced with a OEM computer from [redacted] along with the transmission.

Customer stated that she had talked to [redacted] Dealership and they stated that they would reimburse her for the computer she had replaced, if she brought it back to them. She then talked to [redacted] and they told her to drive for a few days and then bring it back to their shop.

We also know that the [redacted] RAV was setting in the parking lot at [redacted] on Thursday, January 16, 2014. From this point, I have not heard anything else from customer about the [redacted] RAV. The mileage on the [redacted] when the transmission was installed was 161,495. The mileage now is 179,717. The total miles driven is: 18,222.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you,

Robert R Hutchens, Owner

R&M Automotive

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response offer made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

When the car was brought into R & M in September of course we wanted the car fixed so we did state to

go ahead and do the necessary repairs. We nevertold R&M to go ahead and do the water pump and

thermostat. This is just another problem they found when working on the car, which they never called

and told us about until we came to pick up the car and pay for the repairs.

Also, by my understanding R&M does not do catalytic converter and oxygen sensors since we had to

take it down to [redacted] in order for this work to be done. This work was done in Dec 2013 and

replaced again in Feb of 20L4. Never did I say a boyfriend would do those repairs when that is not even

possible. We did not decline the repairs since R&M does not do that type of service. We were never told

to Bo to [redacted] in Feb 2013. R&M only told us of [redacted] this winter 2013 when I

had taken it down there for repairs. This was stated in my pervious complaint and the price along with

that repair was included. lf we were aware of this problem and told to go fix something we would have.

This did not seem to be a concern of R&M.

ln the summer of 2013 there were problems with the car but I was never made aware that the catalytic

converter and oxygen sensors HAD to be replaced that was not told to me in the summer. R&M went

along with never being able to find anything wrong with it.

Going for a ride with my father for 30 minutes will not truly tell if something is wrong with the car. As a

mechanic there needed to be more done. Drive it for a few days; do more test on the car which R&M did

not perform. They simply said nothing was wrong with it.

My car was sitting in the [redacted] parking lot on Jan. l-6th due to more complications with my

vehicle after R&M had put in the crank shaft sensor. Yes, they did do it free of charge but they never

once called in two weeks to let me know what was going on in the vehicle. I had to call them after the

2nd week and see when it would be finished and the cost of the repairs. lf they had charged us we would

have not known this until I went to pick up the car. When I called them to ask of the repairs and the cost

they told me "we would talk about it when I got down there".

The engine light was on and the code that was stated was correct. R&M supposedly drove the vehicle 90

miles without any problems which in turn the engine light went back on due to the catalytic converters

being ruined again.

After [redacted] fixed this problem around the Jan. 16th when the car was spotted there we

proceeded to take it to the Toyota dealer in Staunton. I called R&M to get the warranty on the

transmission they had put in since I needed a new transmission which R&M decided they would not due

and after all the complications we have had we did not feel comfortable letting them repair my car

anymore. I was without a car for two weeks while Toyota fixed my transmission with a cost of another

$900.00. I picked up my car from them on Saturday Feb. 1st

2014.

Regards,

Business

Response:

The Toyota Rav 4 that was brought into the shop in September all of the repairs were authorized. The water pump and thermostat were authorized by [redacted]'s dad. In Feb 2013 [redacted] and her boyfriend were on the way to the beach for Valentines day. They came by the shop. We checked codes because the check engine light was on. The code was P0420 Catalyst system below efficiency, below threshold, Bank # 1. Her boyfriend stated he could replace the oxygen sensor. We had told him before we could not do that and advised her to talk to [redacted]. When we went for a ride with her father we could not duplicate the problem. When her car was at [redacted] in Jan 2014, It had nothing to do with the crank sensor we installed. She came by the shop with the check engine light on, we scanned the computer and oxygen sensor codes were there. She took pictures of the scanner with the codes on her phone so she could show interstate muffler. As far as the Toyota dealership goes we had talked to one of the techs. The Rav 4 was brought in to them and they could not duplicate the problem and it had no transmission codes. The service advisor suggested to replace the transmission. The car did not have codes P0750. P0751, Po758 or Po1760 which is hard shift. Customer had talked to Jasper engines and transmission and advised of problems they were having which is case# [redacted]. Jasper sent Toyota another transmission along with a computer. Customer stated before that we did not replace the computer which we did. It came with the transmission we put in the first time. I understand it cost the customer $900.00 dollars.

I talked to Jasper on Thursday Mar 6,2014. Their findings on the transmission we installed are as follows:

Factory analysts(not a jasper defect root cause undetermined)

Neutral 1-2 Unit passed(Dynometer)

Checked 2nd brake clutch(no defects)

No defects found