Navien America Inc

I have spent $2000 in last nine months. I had Navien installer and certified technician came to fix this year for 9 times in 9 months. I had no hot water for almost two months this summer. I had no heating for couple weeks last winter.

My plumber installed Navien Model CH-240 unit 5 years ago. I converted from oil to natural gas and spent $12,000. My older oil unit never gave any issues for 20 years.

Following are repairs in last 9 months with $2000 cost plus no heat or hot water today.

Error code 003E, Heater Flame Rod fix 2 times
Heater 3 Way Valve, Oring fixed
Error code 015E
Flame Rod, Ignition Transformer, Leak Fix, PCB (Motherboard) fixed
Error code 002E

Why should I go through cost, mental stress, and no heat and hot water?

Review: We had a \Navien tankless water heater installed in our home through a Navien reseller. After a few months we noticed that the water flow was not consistent, and the unit started to make a huge racket that we could hear throughout our home.we called Navien who sent a certified installer to review the installation (paid for by us). The installation was found to have a number of problems. fixing these problem would cost $1400 before tax.I called Navien back and agreed to pay for the installation - bringing the total cost of installing a tankless water heater $6,000!!! But I cant be sure that installation by Navien's original reseller hasnt broken the unit. No one can guarantee us that. So we may be paying this large amount only to learn that we still dont have a functioning unit.Navien's stance is that although we purchased through a Navien reseller, its basically 'buyer beware' on the installation. This is a terrible customer experience. Navien has made profit on the sale and are shirking all responsibility for exposing customers to installers who are not capable of installing properly. why are they selling units and allowing these companies to represent them if they are not qualified.Desired Settlement: I would like either a new unit so that at least if we pay this huge sum, we are confident that it will work, and has a guarantee,or an amount equal to the cost of replacing the unit, or an extension of the one year warranty.

Business

Response:

Hello,

We have responded to [redacted] and [redacted] directly regarding this customer complaint. This issue has already been addressed directly with the homeowner.

Thank you,

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.

Regards,

Latest email thread is below.....

A) you are well behind. I told you that we hired JjJ [redacted] to completely remove and re install the unit. Total cost $6000

B) you sold me the unit through your reseller. You made the profit through your support of this reseller. Now you are telling me that you are not responsible? Follow the money, it all goes back to you.

C) your attitude to not only making the money through your reseller, but also telling me that you may invalidate my warranty after having made your money from me, is shameful.

My experience with [redacted] is the definition of poor customer support.

VP Sales, North [redacted]

On Apr 14, 2014, at 4:12 PM, "[redacted]" <[redacted]> wrote:

Hello [redacted],

We will not be taking any responsibility, as this is not [redacted]’s fault. We cannot pay for something that was not a [redacted] defect. According to our policy, if our product is being damaged due to incorrect installation we can void all warranty. [redacted] also does not pay for materials for [redacted] work or installation of a unit. We will also be informing the Revdex.com that there is nothing further we can do until you address the incorrect installation of your unit. We do apologize for the experience you have gone through with your installer but we will not be able to pick up any charges that have been accrued or installation of a new unit. Once the issues have been addressed, we will be able to reevaluate your case and see if your unit needs to be replaced. I have attached our policy for your reference; please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Thank you,

Technical Administrator

P. ###-###-#### ext [redacted]

F. ###-###-####

www.[redacted]

<image001.jpg>

P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not one of the **med recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. [redacted] Inc. and any of its Subsidiaries reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks

From: [redacted] [mailto:r[redacted]]

Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 9:13 AM

To: [redacted]

Subject: Re: Unit# [redacted],

The first installation was done by Eatons. We learnt that they are a fly by night operation. If [redacted] is comfortable having firms like this represent your product is astounding to me. They charged us $4,500 for the unit and their installation work.

[redacted] has looked at the system. The cost to review the installation was ~$150. The cost to re install the unit is $1400.

Total cost to your customer is $6,000.

If you are able to step up take some responsibility, let me know.

VP Sales – [redacted]

###-###-####

From: [redacted] <[redacted]>

Date: Friday, March 7, 2014 at 8:43 AM

To: [redacted] <r[redacted]>

Cc: [redacted] <[redacted]>, [redacted] <[redacted]>, [redacted] <[redacted]>, [redacted] <[redacted]>

Subject: RE: Unit# [redacted]

Mr. [redacted],

I am sorry that you have had an unsavory experience with your origi**l installer and we would like to help. What can be done to make your situation right for starters is to have your installation and gas supply issues corrected as long as they are left at the current state your unit will never function as designed. Having your situation addressed sooner rather than later is the best course of action. Once you have done this I am willing to, at [redacted]’s expense, send out one of our [redacted] to take a look at your entire unit installation along with a once over of your unit. Since the unit has been operatio**l under such extreme conditions it is imperative to take a look at the unit to ensure damage has not been done to the unit during the time since installation. We are making every effort to provide you with assistance but we cannot be held responsible for an agreement you had with your origi**l installer. Please let me know if you would like to accept our offer to send someone out to take a look at your system after the corrections have been made.

With thanks,

[redacted] – Senior Technical Administrator

[redacted], Inc.

Irvine, CA. 92618

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This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not one of the **med recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. [redacted] Inc. and any of its Subsidiaries reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.

From: [redacted] [mailto:r[redacted]]

Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 8:56 AM

To: [redacted]

Cc: [redacted]

Subject: Re: Unit# [redacted]

How that lands on me is “we sell as many units to our distributor as possible…where they land is not our responsibility”. So how your distribution system works e**bles unscrupulous installers to access your product and hack those units into homes.

So I have accepted the responsibility of my part in not investigating your channel system and I am paying $6000 to – hopefully – fi**lly get the unit installed properly. I think we can both agree this is significantly above [redacted] for that unit.

Help me understand what you have done to make the situation right. So far all I hear is ‘hey mr customer this is all your fault”.

VP Sales – [redacted]

###-###-####

From: [redacted] <[redacted]>

Date: Thursday, March 6, 2014 at 8:37 AM

To: [redacted] <r[redacted]>

Cc: [redacted] <[redacted]>, [redacted] <[redacted]>, [redacted] <[redacted]>, [redacted] <[redacted]>

Subject: RE: Unit# [redacted]

Mr. [redacted],

It seems to be a misunderstanding as to how we conduct business and distribute our product. We, [redacted] Inc., manufacture tankless hot water heaters and combi**tion boilers for distribution within the United States and Ca**da. We sell our products directly to wholesale/supply houses that do business with us. Once the unit is purchased from our company by the wholesale/supply house they in turn sell our product to other smaller supply houses and/or licensed contractors. We do not as you have stated below sell direct to “unqualified resellers”. When a homeowner works with an independent installer/contractor to perform [redacted]s in their home at their request that is an agreement entered into between the homeowner and the [redacted] provider. The manufacturer of the product installed is only involved if a manufactures defect should arise, which in your case this cannot be verified nor determined as there are too many installation errors and issues that must be corrected in order for your unit to function as designed. It was your origi**l installer’s responsibility to properly size and install your unit according to manufacture specifications listed on our website and in the manual. It is clearly stated on our website that “[redacted] Dealers are independent businesses and as such any engagement by you of these listed dealers will be of your own accord and [redacted] will hold no responsibility for any of the work performed.”

As I stated in my previous email, should you get a [redacted] provider out onsite to go over the entire system with our technical support team we can start to help you correct your installation and supply issues. We are more than happy to help you correct your installation issues through our technical support team providing information to help your [redacted] provider correct the issues that are present. I would strongly encourage you to get a [redacted] provider out onsite to take a look at the unit so we can begin to help you correct your installation issues.

With thanks,

[redacted] – Senior Technical Administrator

[redacted], Inc.

Irvine, CA. 92618

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This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not one of the **med recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. [redacted] Inc. and any of its Subsidiaries reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.

From: [redacted] [mailto:r[redacted]]

Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 4:53 PM

To: [redacted]

Cc: [redacted]

Subject: Re: Unit# [redacted]

Help me understand how [redacted] can be selling units through unqualified resellers?

I get how it benefits [redacted]. I don't get how it benefits the public.

I am basically $6000 into a water heater installation without any idea if after all this I will actually have hot water in my home.

How it lands on me is "[redacted] were content to take the revenue from the sale of the unit that was fulfilled through an unscrupulous reseller"

So what are you going to do to fix this? So far the answer has been nothing.

VP Sales, [redacted]

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 5, 2014, at 4:40 PM, "[redacted]" <[redacted]> wrote:

Hello Mr. [redacted],

I am in receipt of your correspondence through our webpage regarding your frustration with your origi**l installing contractor. I am sorry to hear of your troubles and would like to help assist you in any way that I can. I have gone into our system and found your unit history and it appears that you are experiencing an installation issue that is causing problems with the [redacted] that is installed in your home. Back in May of 2013 you had called into our technical support team and wanted confirmation that in fact your unit was undersized for your home application. We advised you during the call that the demand that you are requesting in your home cannot be met by just one of our units as your application is calling for 23 gallons per minute to be produced. After that origi**l phone call we did not hear anything regarding your unit until January of 2014. During this set of calls we had discovered that you are also experiencing a gas supply issue that is resulting in the unit making noise. Both of the above mentioned issues that you are experiencing with your unit are not caused by a manufacture defect. These are clearly installation issues that will need to be addressed by a licensed installer/contractor before we can even begin to address any other issue that you may have. As a tool we do have a list of [redacted] providers on our website that you may contact to provide you with further assistance. Should you want to move forward with the trouble shooting/diagnosing of all of your issues so you can get them addressed I have also copied our Senior Technician-[redacted] M. and you may reach out to him with any technical concerns. Please do keep in mind that in order for proper diagnosing of your issues you will need a licensed contractor onsite with the proper tools to check gas supply, water supply, etc. Please let me know what other kind of assistance I may provide for you so we can help you rectify your situation. Thank you for your time and have a wonderful day.

With thanks,

[redacted] – Senior Technical Administrator

[redacted], Inc.

Irvine, CA. 92618

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###-###-#### Fax

PPlease consider the environment before printing this e-mail

This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not one of the **med recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. [redacted] Inc. and any of its Subsidiaries reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.

From: [redacted]

Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 10:15 AM

To: [redacted]

Subject: FYI

First**me

Last**me

Company

Address

Country

ZipCode_Postal

State_Province

BC

City

NORTH VANCOUVER

Phone

Email

[redacted]

Fax

Inquiry

Labor & Warranty

WebUrl

ChooseOne

End User

List

Remark

I am having a horrible experience with a Tankless water heater. Spent $4,500 so far and have a

loud annoying noise, and our water flow is intermittent. The installer has gone bankrupt so we

are looking at another $1,400 to reinstall it. Once I am done we will be into it for $6,000 which

I'm sure we can agree is well over the acceptable rate.

I would like to speak with the President of [redacted] and express my concern. His **me is

not published anywhere that I can see. Please foreward it to me along with his phone number.

[redacted], Irvine, CA 92618

Toll Free: ###-###-####

Main: ###-###-####

[redacted] Hotline: ###-###-####

Fax: ###-###-####

[redacted]

www.[redacted]

<[redacted] Limited Warranty(9-12b).pdf><[redacted] Limited Warranty.pdf><[redacted] RGA Form LABOR (shorten).pdf><Warranty [redacted] & Return Policy(9-12).pdf>

Business

Response:

Hello [redacted],

This will be the last email regarding this issue, we have done our best to clarify this situations with the homeowner . We responded to his email this morning to submit his invoice for the $150 so we can reimburse him for the cost to review his installation as promised by [redacted]. We also informed him to submit all documentation supporting that the issue has been addressed along with pictures of the correct installation. We do apologize for the inconvenience the homeowner has gone through, but we want to make sure that all parties involved understand that this is not a Navien defect, our unit will work fine if the unit is installed correctly. We cannot be held responsible for an incorrect installation that was done by the installer. This is something that he will have to address with his installer. Thank you for your time and have a wonderful day.

Thank you,

Review: Since purchasing a Navien gas burner unit, it has failed 9 times in three months and Navien has refused to replace the defective product.

Nine emergency calls to Navien, and plumbers, are recorded with Navien's service center. Over the course of three months, Navien has not solved the problems, and has refused to replace the unit, which is under warranty (purchase in summer, 2013). From November 2013-January 2014, the unit has failed 9 separate times, producing a lack of heat during freezing conditions. During the failures of January, 2014, after patiently dealing with numerous replacements and no heat or hot water, we demanded a replacement, which the company refused. For three months, water has erupted from the unit (at least one gallon per day), leading to continuous standing water in the basement that has produced mold-like growth and smells that have permeated the house. The company has sent parts to attempt to fix the problem, but after 9 failures of the unit, they will not replace the unit and have offered no apology.Desired Settlement: Unit replacement, remediation of all water damage/mold to basement.

Review: Our tankless hot water heater froze on 2/20/15. We called Navien to put in a claim and they told us that the product should not have been installed outdoors. I looked at the specifications online and in the specification sheet and it says that next to Installation Type: Indoor or Outdoor Wall-Hung. Also on the specification sheet it states this particular unit has Freeze Protection. I called Navien and [redacted] and [redacted] in the technical department told me because we live in a "temperate area", they will not honor the warranty because it should not have been installed outside. North Carolina has experienced the worst temperatures in years, which is not typical of this area.

[redacted] in particular was rude and gave me analogies that made absolutely no sense.Desired Settlement: I want a full refund of the new unit that I am having to have installed because of the faulty product that Navien is claiming is my fault for having installed in a "temperate area".

Business

Response:

Hello,

We are in receipt of your complaint and request that you submit your invoices to be reviewed at [email protected]. When submitting your invoices please be sure to reference your unit's serial number for proper research.

Thank you,

Terrible company. Ridiculous customer service. Or lack of entirely. Had a unit replaced under warranty. New unit is not even a year old and they are saying it doesnt have a warranty because my warranty only goes from when original one was purchased. Worthless people and company. Will never suggest them as anything but a pain.

Review: We put in a Navien tankless combi boiler four years ago. Since then we have had nothing but problems with the brand new unit. It cost 7750- to purchase and install the unit. To date we have had to spend an additional 2600- on repairs. It breaks constantly. Completely unacceptable.

We cannot have a brand new heater that never works. Seeking compensation for our purchase and repairs so we can get a furnace that reliably functions.

Receipts and detailed problem descriptions available upon request.

We have contacted the company several times and they have not acknowledged any of our correspondence.Desired Settlement: $10,350

Review: Purchased a boiler unit online from EComfort in August of 2012. Installed boiler unit in September of 2013. Multiple repairs to unit over the past two years have not resulted in a working boiler. First calls to Navien in the fall of 2013 when the boiler would not work. Kept alarming out. Told how to reset it - shut off power and turn back on. Continuous calls since 2013 for non working boiler and various alarm codes and leaking. Submitted labor bill for latest round of repairs and was told the labor part of the warranty has expired. Boiler is still not working properly, and never worked properly, therefore all labor resulting from the initial complaints should be covered as they were never repaired. Bill submitted as directed by Navien. Navien told us to not pay it, submit it to them and wait for the outcome. We have since paid the bill and received a rejection of claim. Said boiler is drained and turned off as it is still not a working unit. **All dates complained are guesstimates as logs of calls were not kept on either end.Desired Settlement: We would like a full refund of the purchase price of $1995.00 as well as payment for the repair bill of $1105.00. Total so far of $3100.00 into this unit. We will now have to have it removed and replaced with something else prior to next winter as we can not go another season with a boiler that constantly alarms out and leaks water.

Business

Response:

Hello,

Navien has received the complaint on behalf of Mr. & Mrs. [redacted]. This complaint comes after Mr. & Mrs. [redacted] were in direct contact with our Labor Warranty claims department and their request for reimbursement was denied due to the fact that the labor warranty on their unit had expired effective 09/08/2014. Navien reviewed an invoice which Mr. & Mrs. [redacted] submitted during our review of the unit's service history and all applicable invoices, none of the service dates which were included in that invoice fall within the alloted 1 year of labor warranty coverage dates, therefore the claim was denied and this was notified to them via email on 03/18/2015. The email thread with our decision is attached.

I had a CC 210 Ng on demand Boiler with heat box installed in 2008. It has been a problem since day one. It has had most every piece and part from elbows to motherboard replaced. Many of them more than once. I have had 3 elbows crack and flood my basement suite on 3 different occasions. Navien tech support is quick to offer replacement parts; which they send up from California 2-4 days wait without heat or hot water. Local suppliers seldom carry the parts and suppliers can’t trace the parts numbers provided by Navien often. The fact that we have no heat or hot water for days at a time does not seem to be a concern to Navien. They also insist on having a "Qualified Installer" do the repairs, which they will not pay for. After years of this "service" and threats of legal action they agreed to replace the unit. I had a new boiler installed a week ago and the problems continue. The heat box flow meter appeared to be the problem so we swapped it out with the spare I purchased some time ago to be certain not to be stuck waiting for parts. It didn't work. Navien insisted on sending out a new one, two days later and, of course the new, new flow meter doesn't change a thing. Navien now says they'll send out two more parts that certainly must fix it, as there are only 3 possible parts that could cause the problem. Now the plumbers need to come back for the a third time, on my dime, and replace more parts that should have been send the first time. (All have been replaced at least once before. One of which is the Motherboard). I have my doubts that this will fix the problem and I'm certain I will continue to have problems with unit and with the company. My advice, stay far away from this company, its products and its lack of service.

Review: A piece of heat sealing gasket of the boiler broke off causing heat to escape from the boiler. Navien will not honor the warranty to replace the gasket due to incorrect venting installation of the unit. After many attempts to tell us where in the installation manual does it show an improper installation of the venting they cannot point to the manual but just continue to say a certain clearance had to be met. The only clearance shown in the manual is 12" above grade which is shown to be for snow clearance only and this has been met by the installer. I wanted the gasket replaced or a new boiler installed in the unit under the warranty. Over a period of the last 4 months my contractor, who installed the unit has tried to at least purchase the gasket but have been refused by Navien to due so. The reason given us is they state that the boiler is a sealed part and the gasket cannot be replaced. This is contradicted by the fact that screws hold the top of the boiler together where the gasket is located that can be removed ( I assume for service), not welded or riveted together. And even if the gasket can't be replaced then get me a boiler for the unit. Unless they can point to a specific part of the installation manual that shows a breach of install I should be afforded warranty coverage. As it stands now I will have to replace the entire system, which is ridiculous. The unit must be repairable or how can it be maintained. At one point they were going to have a distributor local to my area come out to look at the unit but they have even refused to even do that. The local plumbing place I purchased it from, Wallington Plumbing Supply in Fairfield NJ [redacted] or their Wallington store [redacted]. says its hands are tied in trying to help negotiating with Navien( I'm not sure why). Just to note, while the install was taken place the contractor contacted Navien various times to ensure what he was doing was correct.Desired Settlement: Honor the warranty, or point to the specific part of the installation manual that shows a breach of venting. Send out a new boiler gasket or replace the boiler. At a minimum sell me the gasket or the boiler to enable me to not have to purchase a new system.

Business

Response:

Hello,

We have informed the homeowner that their unit is installed incorrectly 4/26/2014 and warranty on their unit has been void. The part he is requesting in not a serviceable part, he will need to replace his entire unit. The gasket is not a part that we sell or service. The contractor can contact any licensed contractor to purchase a new unit, unfortunately we cannot sell directly to contractors or homeowners. We sell parts and units directly to supply houses. The homeowners unit failed due to his venting being installed incorrectly (not per code). All of this information is within his installation manual pg. 34-44 and is also listed on our website www.navien.com. We will not be able to meet the homeowners demands, as this falls back to the original installer. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns,

Thank you,

Review: I have a Navien Combi boiler model 240 which has broken down several times in the last 2.5 years. The unit now needs a water pump and there is no local supplier and I have to wait for a shipped part during winter. First I find the Navien unit to be unreliable and supply part supply poor at best. If I knew this before I purchased this unit I would have chosen another reliable manufacturer.Desired Settlement: Navien should pay for the part and labor for this poorly designed unit.

Business

Response:

RevDex.com of San Diego

Orange

& Imperial Counties

Attention:

4747

Viewridge Avenue Suite 200

San

Diego, CA 92123

Complaint

ID #: [redacted]

Serial # [redacted]

Dear Madam:

We are in response to a customer’s complaint which was filed with

you for unit serial # [redacted]. Our records indicate that this product

was first registered with Navien Inc. on 06/22/2014 with an original

installation date of 11/30/2013. Navien Inc. requires that all products be

registered within 30 days of the original installation date; however we allowed

warranty for this unit despite being 1 year and 5 months past its installation

date. All of our products carry 3 independent warranties which are all based on

the installation date of the original unit, which for this product are as

follows:

CH240(ASME)-NG Warranty Parameters:

Unit Serial # [redacted]

Installation Date: 11/30/2013

Purpose: Residential Use

1 Year Labor Warranty: Expired on 11/30/2014

5 Years Parts Warranty: Active until 11/30/2018

10 Years Heat Exchanger Warranty: Active until 11/30/2023

According

to our records, Navien Inc. was contacted on 03/14/2016 regarding issues with the unit not moving water. During the troubleshooting

process, our Technical Support Team diagnosed

the issue being the pump which is why Navien Inc. issued the part to be shipped

overnight under Returned Goods Authorization (RGA) # PO163148179. Our

technician worked diligently with the

contractor and due to the inconveniences which the consumer and his family were

faced with by not having any hot water, we expedited the delivery of the pump,

ensuring that the issues were resolved in a timely fashion. Therefore based

on all of this information that is available to us, the request for labor

reimbursement in the amount of $1000 is respectfully denied on the basis that

the unit’s 1 Year Labor Warranty had already expired when the system

malfunctioned and required servicing.

Should

you have any further questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact us.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

Regards,

Copy sent to navien, today

Be Warned. Even though Navien sells their products through various distributors on the web, if you as a consumer purchase any of their water heater/boilers from one of these e-commerce vendors, they WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY...even if you have a licensed plumber install it!

Review: I have a Navien CH-240-LP combination water heater in my new home (4 years). My serviceman has been out over 20 times for problems with this unit. No hot water, no heat and even a flooded basement when another one of their cheap plastic parts malfunctioned. Each time my serviceman talks with the techs at Navien about the current problem then we wait for a part to be shipped (while I heat up water on the stove for bathing and use electric heaters for heat) and then he has to make another trip out to replace defective part with a new part of the same quality that will most likely fail also. I and the plumbing store where the unit was purchased have asked Navien to replace this lemon with an upgraded model that does not seem to have all these problems but they refused. They want to just replace the cheap plastic parts until my warrantee runs out, then I am going to be stuck with a lemon and exorbitant repair bills. My repairman told me this unit sometimes shuts off and produces "whacky random codes" codes that say I have a problem that I just don't have but each time the boiler shuts off and I'm stuck with no heat or hot water.Desired Settlement: Navien replace my CH-240 with their improved Model NCB.

Business

Response:

Hello,

In regards to this request please note that as of the date of this response, Navien Inc. has authorized a unit replacement for Ms. [redacted]. The authorization for a unit replacement was issued to her contractore on 01/15/2016. Should you require any additional information do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

Technical Administrator

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution would be satisfactory to me if the replacement is an improved model. I will wait for the business to perform this action and, if it does, will consider this complaint resolved.

Regards,

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I filed a complaint (#11079205) on January 9, 2016 against Navien America Inc. to have my CH-240-LP combination boiler replaced with a new NCB model that does not have so many problems. On January 15, 2016 Navien told my dealer, Hamburg Supply Co. in Hamburg, NJ, "give her whatever she wants". I told my dealer that I wanted the CH-240-LP replaced with a new NCB model. My dealer said that Navien agreed. Based on this information I dropped my complaint through the Revdex.com. Now on January 25, 2016 my dealer tells me that the unit is in his store but that Navien says that they will not cover the cost of labor ($800) to replace the old unit with the new unit. In my dictionary 'replace' means "to put back in the proper place or position" which in this case is hanging on the wall connected to all piping and electrical components. This requires labor by a qualified serviceman. I am a retired senior citizen on a very limited income, I have already spent way too much of my savings on this unit. Therefore I am requesting that Navien do the honorable thing by supplying the unit and labor to replace the malfunctioning unit. Navien replace my CH-240-LP with their improved Model NCB including the cost of installation.

Regards,

Business

Response:

To [redacted], We would like to request you to reopen the complaint. Please find our response to CID # [redacted] below: We have been in direct communication with consumer [redacted] and have mutually come to an agreement that Navien Inc. will pay a portion of the reinstallation costs associated with the unit replacement. Ms. [redacted] has been notified of this and has accepted our offer. Therefore, we will be closing this case. Should you have any questions or concerns, do not hesitate to contact us. Thank you. Sincerely, [redacted]

Review: Note: I selected yes on the Health question. Please see attached documents. Filed a labor claim with Navien and all docs needed on Feb 23, 2015. Local Plumber installed a new Navien Heating/Hot water unit in our current address last year as part of the renovations needed after a house fire. We had two different plumbers addressed the failure between the dates of Feb 11,2014 to Feb 14,2014 that left us without Heat and Hot water for 3 1/2 days. [redacted] from 128 Plumbing Heating & Cooling co, after 5 plus hours and working with Naviens Tech support, Navien determined that the unit was working fine. After further diagnose testing, [redacted] was unable to determine the cause. His Company's charge was $250.00 and the unit was still un-operational. On Feb 13, 2014 we located a plumber who is familiar with Naviens systems and there hiding flaws. [redacted] owner and operator of Aquaflow Plumbing werent able to meet with us until Saturday, Feb 14, 2014. From 8:45am to 1:00am [redacted] was able to locate the problem within the Navien Unit. It had a faulted circulating pump which he was able to replace with a new one from a local plumbing supplied company. The Aquaflow Plumbing Companys charge was $ 575.00 Since faxing the necessary doc's on Feb 23, 2014, there has been no response from Navien to resolve this issue. Initially I requested re-imbursement for the 3 days of lost wages, but mu employer did come thru and helped us out. I am looking for a full re-imbursement of $925.00 as billed by both Plumbers. Navien Allowable Labor of $75.00 with a max of $150.00 per occurrence for each repair should not apply in this case. For 1, their Technician declares the unit to be working fine on Feb 12, 2014 and clearly it was not. 2) This requires another visit by a different Plumbing for the same problem. 3)Navien is still selling these units with known internal components with design flaws. 4) As I have specified to Navien in my Fax, we are still having a different issue with this unit with a different error code (6). This erroe does and still does causing the unit to shut down. We have been able to restart this unit but we need a permanent fix as-soon-as-possible we I also mentioned to Navien.Desired Settlement: Full Refund and a solution to the current issue. And schedule a visit by Aquaflow Plumbing & Heating in [redacted], Tel [redacted] to fix this issue.Thank You[redacted]

Business

Response:

Mr. [redacted],

We are in receipt of your request for labor reimbursement and as most other companies we process claims on a Net 30 days. In order to verify your claims which you stated were submitted on 2/23/15 please confirm your unit's serial number for me and I will gladly perform the necessary research for these claims to be processed.

Thank you,

I purchased and had installed a CH-240 combi unit in 2011. This unit is plagued with many problems (many error codes) and I believe it is a lemon that should be replaced or reimbursement. Navien will send out replacement parts under warranty but this involves having no heat/hot water and paying the labor costs. . I have have spent over $3,000 in repairs since this has been installed. The list of recommended service providers on the Navien website is not good. They sigh when you tell them you have a Navien because Navien is slow paying for warranty work. Most contractors will not return phone calls. The local dealers don't stock parts. Replacement parts have to ship from California to Connecticut causing repair delays. I had my ignitor stop working on Saturday and could not get anyone to come fix it on Sunday. This is the 3rd ignitor since it was installed. . I got a guy to my house on Monday and the ignitor had to be shipped in for Tuesday. I just went Saturday - Tuesday with no heat/hot water - this is unacceptable! I am sure Navien has a log of all my contractor and my phone calls to technical support to verify my issues.

Review: Defect for serial Number [redacted]

The end of March of first of April, a Navien certified plumber (the only one in our area that services residential Navien units) installed a replacement tankl;ess wwater heater that was under the parts warranty. There was no equipment cost to me. However, Navien provided a labor allowance for the unit and I paid the remaining balance - no issue with that.

Fast forward, the same plumber has come out of 3 separate occasions due to the new unit being defective (emitting a loud electronic (almost like a short) noise that can be heard 3 stories below the unit in every corner of the house). Navien sent out 2 different replacement parts which did not fix the problem. Further, I was told that there may be no solution. Basically they sent me a defective product and I am looking at a potential several thousand dollar liability to completely replace the unit to get one that works.

Here is the 2 part request:

1 – As the replacement unit was defective, I am asking for a labor allowance of $548.63 invoice representing 3 visits by the Navien certified plumber be paid by Navien. I understand labor is out of warranty but in talking with legal council, this situation is covered under the Consumer Protection Law - in particular, the defective product has created an inequity that does negate the warranty and requires the company to pay all costs associated to fix the problem.

2 – The unit is still defective so I want Navien to fully cover all future costs (hardware and labor) to make the unit whole. If it can not be fixed, I want Navien to provide enough of an allowance for me to go to another company to get a unit that is not defective (estimated costs: $3,000 - $4,000).

I appreciate your time and attention to this problemDesired Settlement: 1 - the defective unit in question to be repaired at Navien's expense (hardware and labor)

2 - Reimbursement for labor charge of $548.63

Business

Response:

Hello,

We have been in direct contact with Mr. [redacted] and previously denied the labor claim on 05/13/2015 due to the fact that the Original unit's warranty had been expired since 04/10/2011. Navien authorized a unit replacement on 02/24/2015 which is nearly 4 years from the labor warranty expiration date. Based on our records and service history for unit serial #[redacted] the unit was installed on 04/10/2010; Navien Inc. offers 3 Independent warranty coverages for its products which are all based on the initial installation date and are as follows:

1 Year Labor warranty which commences on the installation date 04/10/2010 and expired on 04/10/2011

5 Years Parts warranty which commences on the installation date 04/10/2010 and expired on 04/10/2015

15 Years Heat Exchanger warranty which commences on the installation date 04/10/2010 and expires on 04/10/2025

Based on our warranty parameters stated above the request for labor is 4 years past the expiration date therefore Navien Inc. has denied this claim. If the consumer experiences issues with the replacement unit he will need to have a contractor onsite call into our Technicall Support team to address his concerns to help troubleshoot and diagnose the unit. Should there be any further questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact us at [redacted],

Technical Administrator

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

Navien has all documentation showing that the issue is not their warrarnty - it is that Navien provided me with a defective unit when they replaced the first unit. I strongly believe it is the companies responsiblity to fix the new unit completely at their expense which includes labor.

Regards,

Review: San Diego Cty Resident. 2300SqFeet House, 2.5 bath...occupied by my wife and I. After talking to Navien and a number of other companies I decided to get the NPE-210A installed in March 2015. We set the temperature at 130degrees. We don’t have a dedicated re-circulation line but was told by NAVIEN that the 1 Gallon reserve Tank was always HOT with its own internal Re-Circulation Pump. For the first month or so I was happy, I had hot water almost instantly at the faucets and the shower. Water Pressure was great. Installation was the first week of March 2015…the beginning of spring. I got an Error 3 in June and ever since then, I've had problems (ERROR 3 means ignition failure). I also noticed that my water pressure on the HOT side had dropped by 50%. Roman tub Cold GPM registers at 13GPM…the HOT side is at 6GPM. The other faucets in the house similar drop in pressure. My shower registers at 5GPM Cold and 2 GPM (hot water); I can run the hot water in the shower for 5 minutes at which point the water will become lukewarm, to take a shower I only use the hot water valve and keep in mind that we have this set at 130degrees, the Water is lukewarm, my wife will then take a shower and the water never gets past lukewarm.

My Plumber/installer has been to my house at least 10times and every time, he has called in to NAVIEN. NAVIEN only shows 4-calls. He went thru the test and when it came to reading the GPM, he was told that 2GPM was not sufficient to get the Heat exchanger fired up. My water bill has gone up, I am wasting water in a State that has a severe drought problem. NAVIEN says that the unit is running fine...the literature says that unit should work with 1/2 GPM. NAVIEN refuses to replace the unit.Desired Settlement: I would like NAVIEN to replace or refund me for the cost of the Unit $3,233.

Business

Response:

Hello,

We have reviewed the complaint from Mr. [redacted] as well as the service history for the unit. Our records indicate that unit Serial # [redacted] was registered with Navien Inc. on 06/04/2015 with an installation date of 04/15/2015. Our Technicians have received phone calls from the contractor who stated the homeowner's original complaint was that the unit was taking too long to deliver hot water, the issue was originally addressed during a phone call on 06/04/2015, in which our technical support team verified the unit settings at the end of the phone call it was agreed that the unit was working as designed. The system seemed to work fine for about a month before a second phone call was received from Mr. [redacted] who stated the unit was receiving an Error code, he was advised to have a contractor onsite for further diagnosing & troubleshooting and complied with this request when the contractor reached out to our Technical Support a few days later for assistance the issue then was due to the addition of a water softner which had been previously installed. Finally on August 25, 2015 it was deemed that the unit is undersized for the roman tub which is in Mr. [redacted]'s home, the unit is working as designed it's just undersized for the current use of the home, this was addressed with the contractor on 08/25/2015 and then again with the owner on 08/31/2015, the issues Mr. [redacted] is experiencing are due to the roman tub this is not deemed a manufactured defect, therefore we respectfully decline Mr. [redacted]'s request for the cost incurred with the multiple contractor's visit and or a full refund of the cost of the unit. Should you have any questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact us for further review.

Thank you,

Technical Administror

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

[Navien claims that the system is undersized for a home of 2350 Sq Feet with 2.5 bath. We don't use the Tub, the problem and the issue we've been trying to resolve with NAVIEN is that the unit does not turn on with low flow 2GPM faucets. In order to get hot water to take a shower, I must turn on the Tub which uses a 3/4" line with a Flow rate of 7GPM in order to get water pumped up thru the system, I am not using the Tub to take a shower. The unit they are selling does not comply with CA water restrictions. I was told to let the hot water run until it got hot, I can let the water run on any faucet in the house for 15-20 minutes at 2GPM and the water never gets hot...therefore the Heating chamber does not turn on when a 2GPM flow rate. I am wasting water. The sales Rep for the NAVIE, [redacted] wrote to me and told me that I obviously don't understand how a Tankless unit works, "you save gas but you use more water"; Navien's Sales Rep is trying to sell me a PUMP to activate the unit as it does not work with LOW FLOW faucets, I've attached the text messages from Scott trying to sell me a recirculation pump.The unit stopped coming on at 2GPM after the ERROR 3 that I got on July 4th...ever since the unit has malfunctioned and refuses to produce hot water at 2GPM. I have gotten additional ERROR 3 since then. In the attached brochure on the last page you will see that the unit is being advertised to turn on at .5GPM but it does not.]

Regards,

"

Review: Attempting to get warranty work done on boiler/tankless water heater. Unable to find local repairman. Unwilling to use installer due to his unethical behavior of trying to pass off a used unit as new at original installation. Company unwilling to locate and provide needed warranty service.Desired Settlement: Request that company locate a technician willing and able to provide warranty work. Absent that, request that purchase price be refunded in entirety.

Business

Response:

Hello [redacted],

We have made multiple attempts to contact the homeowner and we have not heard back as of today. The homeowner can contact any license contractor to service her unit and Navien Technical Support is always available to help troubleshoot the unit. Unfortunately, we do not have a contractor who has signed up with us in her area; therefore, she will need to contact a licensed contractor. We always recommend the homeowner to obtain proof of purchase from the contractor to make sure the unit was recently purchased and not used in a previous location, if the homeowner did purchase a used unit then all warranty will be void. Since this has yet to be confirmed, below is her valid warranty as of now. We also cannot meet her demands requesting reimbursement for the cost of her installation.

Warranty:

1 Year Labor Warranty Expires 10/21/2014

5 Year Parts Warranty Expires 10/21/2018

10 Year Heat Exchanger Warranty Expires 10/21/2018

Thank you,

Review: The complaint is with respect to a Navien America Tankless Water Heater (Model NR210A-NG).The unit was purchased in April 2010. In the 4-years of operation, the unit has broken down with water leakage requiring parts and service 4 (four) times; April 19, 2011, November 28, 2012, September 4, 2013 and July 16, 2014.The unit was purchased from and installed by Advantage AirTech. Concerning the breakage/leaks of the unit, the technician from Advantage AirTech advises that this model has a track record for breakage/leakages. Advantage AirTech technician indicated that Navien has swapped out this unit model for a new model for other Advantage AirTech customers.In multiple conversations with Navien (3 technicians and 1 supervisor), Navien is recommending that I proceed with the fourth repair. In the conversation with the supervisor, he could not assure better results and could not assure that the unit would not break down again within a year's time.A follow-up e-mail to Navien has been forwarded requesting the replacement of the unit or at the very least coverage of the Advantage AirTech service fee estimate of $400-$500.Desired Settlement: I am requesting replacement of the Navien Tankless Water heater (NR210A-NG) with a next generation model.

Business

Response:

Hello [redacted],

Review: I purchased a Navien Combi Gas Boiler/Water Heater and it was installed on 9/24/13. I registered it online on 9/27/13 and have the paperwork to prove it. Navien claims they did not have that registration information but after my sending in the paperwork to prove it they have told me that has been corrected on their end. (That was their first excuse for turning down my request for them to pay the plumbers costs of $590.00.....)

Here is the whole story: There was a leak in my unit which over a few months did not improve and I called my plumber to check it on 5/28/15. He could not figure out the issue but said that perhaps an earlier tuneup than recommended would help. So, at that time he did the early tuneup and also "replaced the neutralizer on condensate that was leaking" ($200 for part and labor) thinking that would take care of the problem. The leaking continued and my plumber returned. He determined that the unit installed in my home on 9/24/13 was faulty and would be replaced. On 12/14/15 Navien's "technical support team authorized and issued a returned goods authorization for the replacement of my unit" and this second unit was installed on that date to the tune of $390 for installation. I have requested that Navien pay for the $200 cost of tuneup and replacement part, and also the cost of $390 for the labor for the installation of the second unit. I had already paid for the installation of the first unit and since my first unit was faulty, replacement and labor should not be my responsibility. Navien claims that they do not pay for "routine maintenance" which is what they call the $200 charge. That was not a routine maintenance call but a call for help with a faulty product. They also claim that they only warranty the labor for the first year from installation date. However, THE PRODUCT WAS FAULTY!!! There was nothing routine or normal about this installation. I should not have to pay the cost to repair, maintain or replace this faulty unit!Desired Settlement: I am still requesting that Navien pay the $200 for maintenance and repair of my faulty heating unit in addition to $390, the bill for installation that I paid to my plumber. Navien has all of the paperwork regarding this case and have refused me twice. If needed, I will be happy to provide Revdex.com with any necessary paperwork as well.

Business

Response:

Revdex.com of San

Diego

Orange & Imperial Counties

Attention: [redacted]

4747 Viewridge Avenue Suite 200

San Diego, CA 92123

Complaint ID #: [redacted]

Serial # [redacted]

Dear Madam:

We are in response to a

customer’s complaint which was filed with you for unit serial # [redacted].

This complainant has been corresponding with our Technical Administration

Department over the time period from 02/12/2016 through 03/08/2016 and has been

respectfully declined on two occasions regarding the complainant’s requests.

Our records for unit # [redacted]

indicate that this product was initially installed on 09/24/2013. Navien Inc.

offers our products 3 Independent Warranty coverage’s which are all based on

the original installation date and for unit # [redacted] are as follows:

CH240(ASME)-NG

Warranty Parameters

Unit

Serial # [redacted]

Installation

Date: 09/24/2013

Purpose:

Residential Use

1

Year Labor Warranty: Expired on 09/24/2014

5

Years Parts Warranty: Active until 09/24/2018

10

Years Heat Exchanger Warranty: Active until 09/24/2023

Based on all of this information,

the request for labor reimbursement in the amount of $590 is respectfully

denied on the basis that the unit’s labor warranty had already expired when the

system malfunctioned and required servicing. According to our records, Navien

Inc. was first contacted regarding signs of a malfunction for this unit on

12/14/2015. Unfortunately, the complainant’s 1 Year Labor Warranty had already

expired at the time the first call was received. Navien Inc. worked diligently to provide

available warranty service by replacing the unit under the consumer’s 10 Year

Heat Exchanger Warranty.

Should you have any further

questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact us.

-Sincerely,

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

[Yes, Navien denied my claim twice. I paid $6000 including labor for this "lemon" Navien boiler/ water heater and the company refuses to cover the cost of a second installation after it had to be replaced after less than Han two years! My first Navien boiler leaked a small amount almost from the beginning. Having never experienced installing a new furnace I guess I assumed that was normal but when the leaks didn't stop but increased over time I decided to contact my plumber. My last furnace lasted longer than the 17 years I have owned my house!! The Navien company has three warranties but apparently none of them will cover the labor required when the product is faulty and has to be replaced. I value customer service more than the product in most situations. I trusted in the product at the recommendation of my plumber. I am disappointed in this company both because the first installed $6000 product failed within two years, but more so because the company takes no responsibility for having produced and provided a faulty item to a trusting customer.]

Review: Repeated failure of product we installed in a local high school. We installed based on their written and published information.

They have consistently replaced the failed products when failed under warranty (but have not paid for necessary labor) but now are telling us that the original installation we made

according to their written documents will continue to fail unless we reduce the flow rate below the rates specified in THEIR literature. We cannot conscionably do this as it will reduce hot water production to less than is required in this high school. . We have provided Navien with the written documentation to back up this claim and have repeatedly asked for Navien to provide a 3rd water heater (we offered to take care of

installation materials and labor on our end) in order to reduce the flow below what they now state is the maximum allowable flow rate of 4 GPM. (currently we are at 4.5 GPM, well below the Navien-published maximum output of the system). My and my client's concern is that once out of warranty the client is going to have to replace these units every year or so at his own expense unless we can reduce the flow rate to 4GPM or less by adding a heater so that we can keep total production of hot water at at least the current 10GM without exceeding the "new" requirement from Navien of 4GPM per heater or less. One of the Service Tech Supervisors, [redacted], in California, has repeatedly told me that he had turned this issue over to "Customer Service" and I should have heard from them. The last time I talked to him he gave me the same response but told me he would copy me on the email that he was going to send to them right after we hung up the phone. That was on or about May 28. Then on June 3rd I sent [redacted] this email: "Todd,

I STILL have not heard from anybody at Navien regarding Marian High school, including on the day last week when you personally told me that you would follow up and have the Customer service department respond to me.

Nor did I receive the email copy you promised me with your followup to them.

This has dragged on for six weeks and we just yesterday received one replacement heater.

I'm losing patience with Navien at this point but do not feel it ios yet necessary to escalate this

to the next level without giving you one final chance to do the right thing.

Please at least confirm receipt of this email today.

Thanks."

Of course I did not receive the requested confirmation that day nor have I received one to date. I consider this as my initial "escalation to the next level", and hope it will be the last .Desired Settlement: Since Navien has knowledge that the Navien unit cannot perform at the published flow rate which is published in the sales literature) without failing within the warranty period, and since max flow rate should be no more than 4GPM without producing failure of the unit (as stated by their Tech Service Department), and since Navien installation literature specifies the exact installation we made, and since we have provided Navien with all the necessary written documentation and literature to show this evidence, and since Navien has decided that the best course of action is to ignore the problem in the hopes it will go away, and the fact that client needs production of at least 10GPM of hot water which CANNOT be accomplished with the two units installed contrary to claims in the Navien specs and sales literature, we need Navien to provide an additional unit free of charge along with installation labor and material to insure that we can produce a 10GPM flow rate at less than their specified 4GPM per unit flow rate. Just to preclude any questions, we will guarantee that the delta T on the system is well within the design specs and sales literature claims produced by Navien Corporation for MORE than the 10GPM requirement we have stated. (Output of heaters 140F, return 115-120F, Delta t 20-25F.)

Business

Response:

Hello,

We are in receipt of your complaint, please allow a few days to review with the proper department.

Thank you,

Technical Administrator

P. ###-###-#### ext [redacted]

F. ###-###-####

www.NavienAmerica.com

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I chose this option since the only other one was to close the complaint. I await your action in the near future.]

Regards,

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I received a reply from the company regarding this complaint via the Revdex.com on June 19 stating that they needed a few days to get back to me. I have not heard from them in the week that has ensued.

Regards,

Business

Response:

Hello [redacted],

After speaking with all parties involved, we have already communicated with the contractor informing him this is an external issue that needs to be addressed. The contractor will continue to have problems if he does not address the issues we told him. Navien cannot be held responsible if the contractor installed the improper size unit for the application. We have manuals and literature in place as a reference guide, it is up to the contractor to install the unit per code and meet the applications requirements.

We have already gone above and beyond by replacing multiple units for this contractor all for the same cause (leaking heat exchangers). Navien even upgraded the model from a CC210_NG to an NP240NG to an NPE240A_ NG just to satisfy this customer. We will not be able to meet his request as we have already gone above and beyond by replacing multiple units for this contractor at the same location for leaking heat exchangers. If the contractor needs further assistance, please have him call technical support for help, we will not be providing him an additional unit or reimbursement for labor and materials. We have the right to void all warranty if the performance problems are caused by improper sizing of the water heater or any other components, parts or specifications. We will not be providing any further units or parts for this location until the issue is addressed. All parties involved are aware of this issue and are all willing to help answer any of his questions or any further guidance the contractor is requesting.

Thank you,